Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search


Please help our efforts with a donation. This site requires ongoing funding and your donations are crucial to our future.
Last 10 Donors: Neil Eddiford, Chad Arnow, Jean Thibodeau, Robert Morgan, Adam Rose, Jerry Otahal, Michael P. Smith, Mikko Kuusirati, Eric Bergeron, Daniel Staberg (View All Donors)

Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Torse and Mantling on Bascinets? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2011 8:13 am    Post subject: Torse and Mantling on Bascinets?         Reply with quote

Iím interested in finding historical depictions of torse and mantling on mid-fourteenth century bascinets in England / France. A substantial search of Manuscript Miniatures has not yielded results.

My goal is to spiff up my bascinet for the field and lists, and to do it correctly. Iím aware of many torse and mantling depictions on great helms and jousting helms, but images on bascinets seem to be very rare. Does anyone have images to share or a recommendation for further research?

Thank you in advance,

Scott

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
View user's profile Send private message
Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 614

PostPosted: Thu 22 Sep, 2011 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is a "SCAdianism" to put torse and mantling on a 14thC bascinet. That stuff belongs on the helm, which has to go over the bascinet in that period.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep, 2011 10:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This was my fear. Sad

I'm still open to suggestions if anyone thinks there is even one historical depiction of a bascinet with torse and mantling. Worried

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
View user's profile Send private message
Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 614

PostPosted: Mon 26 Sep, 2011 11:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

15thC grand bascinet... no problem.
Look Scott, its a 30+ year old SCAdianism... if you like it, put one on for SCA use. Take it off for LH demos. No biggie.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ian S LaSpina




Location: Virginia, US
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Reading list: 5 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Hrouda wrote:
This was my fear. Sad

I'm still open to suggestions if anyone thinks there is even one historical depiction of a bascinet with torse and mantling. Worried


Here's the best I can do. I found this passage from Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight by David Edge and John Miles Paddock (ISBN 0-517-10319-2) while reading today.
Quote:
"From about 1300 the basinet was also decorated more or less elaborately, and contemporary accounts speak of gold, pearls and precious stones encrusting these. From this time we read of basinets being decorated by a roll of cloth or torse; this was often richly embellished and was commonly jewelled, as one can see on the monument of Thomas, eighth Lord Berkeley (d 1361) in Berkeley Church, Gloucestershire, and on the brass of Lord Willoughby d'Eresby (d c 1390) at Spilsby, Linconshire" (Edge and Paddock 83).


I found some photos (not the best admittedly, but clearly have decoration on their bascinets) from this person's photostream on flickr.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52219527@N00/515...otostream/

John Willoughby, 3rd Baron Willoughby d'Eresby

Robert Willoughby, 4th Baron Willoughby d'Eresby

William Willoughby, 5th Baron Willoughby d'Eresby


Hope this helps some...

My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest
"Monsters are dangerous, and just now Kings are dying like flies..."
View user's profile Send private message
Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 614

PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not a torse, a chaplet there. Kind of a plaque belt for the bascinet. Close from a dozen yards but it doesn't interfere with wearing a helm. Padded torse - like ringss were added to bascinets as part of the suspension system but somehow they never seem to appear with a torse in effigies or illuminations. If they were common, as in SCA common.... why don't we find them? Seriously, I like the look & I tried to document it, as did others with better research skills than I.

Nada. Sad
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 380

PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Do these look like torses on the guy in the middle and in the tower? http://manuscriptminiatures.com/francais-1584/2408/
View user's profile Send private message
Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 614

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct, 2011 9:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like a scarf or sash of cloth tied on the protagonist's helmets to draw the eye to them. Without knowing the context the illustration supports, I couldn't suggest why. It does not look like the padded donut and mini flag so commonly stuck on bascinets at SCAdian and re-enactment events.

Love the "face" shield on the tower protagonist. Awesome. Cool
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 380

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wasn't sure if these were torses or tokens. Scott said he wanted to spiff up his bascinet and I thought these might be something.
View user's profile Send private message
Scott Hrouda




Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Likes: 15 pages
Reading list: 87 books

Posts: 643

PostPosted: Tue 11 Oct, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Len Parker wrote:
I wasn't sure if these were torses or tokens. Scott said he wanted to spiff up his bascinet and I thought these might be something.


Thank you, I missed that during my search. I do belive it's something. Maybe a simple scarf would be more appropriate that a full torse and mantling.

...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Torse and Mantling on Bascinets?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2020 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum