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Peter O Zwart




Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2010

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jul, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Training         Reply with quote

Hey guys, I have a brother in B.C. and he was looking into doing some training and came across this group:

http://www.academieduello.com/index.html

While the historic side is interesting for him, he is really interested in the practical side of things as well. So basically I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts about this group, or even better if any of you have actually trained with them. Input both on the historic and practical side is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 3:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I went down and checked them out once. They were alright; I think they're rapier is better than their longsword. I did not care for some of the ways they preformed strikes and actions, including holding vom Tach on the shoulder, but that is a methodological disagreement more than anything. When I was there, some of their instructors were rather new and not that good, but that was a couple of years back, and I cannot speak for now.
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 416

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Training         Reply with quote

I was there for an event once, and have trained besode Devon Boorman. Duello has some very good Italian rapier teachers; they do some Bolognese sword and buckler and Fiore longsword but those programs are newer. The school has been accepted into the Chivalric Fighting Arts Association, which has some of the best teachers in North America. Devon is an excellent athelete and a good teacher.

There are several other groups in Vancouver, including the Scatha Combat Guild which seems to be a splinter from the Academie. The lower Mainland/northern Washington State area is one of the best places in the world for WMA instruction right now.

Peter O Zwart wrote:
Hey guys, I have a brother in B.C. and he was looking into doing some training and came across this group:

http://www.academieduello.com/index.html

While the historic side is interesting for him, he is really interested in the practical side of things as well. So basically I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts about this group, or even better if any of you have actually trained with them. Input both on the historic and practical side is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,

Could you explain what you mean by the difference between historical and practical? Paying attention to people who fought with swords, or successfully prepared students to fight with swords, seems like a pretty good strategy for learning how to survive a swordfight.
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Tod Glenn




Location: Helena MT
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 55

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There's certainly a progression from Liechtenauer and other early masters to later masters where complexity of technique seems to imply techniques more suited to longsword fencing than fighting. Simple brutal and deadly is more suited to blade combat in the mind of many 'realistic' modern fighting schools. Indeed, some argue that modern schools of historical longsword that do a lot of competition are becoming more like modern fencing clubs, with an emphasis on scoring rather than winning a real fight - which is certainly understandable since the sword is not really a fighting weapon any longer and one is left with competition to test oneself.

It's comparable to Asian martial arts where some teachers focus on winning matches, while other try to simulate real fights.
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Christian Henry Tobler
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, CT
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 688

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't recommend the Academie Duello highly enough. The school is run with outstanding professionalism, instructor and student calibre is very high, and the organization is an integral part of the vibrant 'Vancouver scene'.

Top notch all around.

All the best,

Christian

Christian Henry Tobler
Order of Selohaar

Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 1:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Academie Duello is a very good school and Devon is a excellent instructor. I have work with Devon in the past and I have always been impressed with his understanding. In my opinion Academie Duello does a very good job with their in Italian Rapier and offer very interesting opportunities in other arts . Your brother would be very well taught if he decided to train with them.

I am not sure what you mean by "practical", personally I don't believe there is anything that constitutes a practical sword art anymore, they all fall under the context of historical, sport or cultural since it is unlikely anyone is going to try and kill you with a sword. If you mean modern self defense, then a school like bill Wolfe's Modern Defendo in New Westminster http://www.moderndefendo.ca/ might be a better choice. He teaches a curriculum that based in modern context of police and military experience with its own "historical" connections to the Canadian military.


mackenzie
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Peter O Zwart




Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2010

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Could you explain what you mean by the difference between historical and practical? Paying attention to people who fought with swords, or successfully prepared students to fight with swords, seems like a pretty good strategy for learning how to survive a swordfight.


What I mean by "practical" is techniques and training that can be used outside sword fighting. as far as sword fighting itself goes I totally agree that studying history is probably the best way to learn how to survive, how ever sword fighting is not all that common outside of film and people like us Wink
Looking at their programs it looks like they teach some grappling, dagger, and quarter staff technique as well.
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Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 677

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The only "practical" I've experianced is learning wrestling/dagger, pugilsim, and how to use any legth of stick (I bushwalk a lot so it makes it practical for moi). That being said if you happen to be an Immortal than you'd better learn it all Laughing Out Loud
But yeah, these guys seem pretty switched on.

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,172

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter O Zwart wrote:
Quote:
Could you explain what you mean by the difference between historical and practical? Paying attention to people who fought with swords, or successfully prepared students to fight with swords, seems like a pretty good strategy for learning how to survive a swordfight.


What I mean by "practical" is techniques and training that can be used outside sword fighting. as far as sword fighting itself goes I totally agree that studying history is probably the best way to learn how to survive, how ever sword fighting is not all that common outside of film and people like us Wink
Looking at their programs it looks like they teach some grappling, dagger, and quarter staff technique as well.


General principles are always applicable to other martial arts or self defense: Controlling distance, timing, situational awareness are all universal skills.

As well sword, staff ( Bo ), shorter staffs ( Jo ), canes, umbrellas or any 24" that comes to hand can be used with the learned skills as well as being able to avoid being hit by said 2X4 in the hands of an attacker instead of just standing there slack jawed and frozen in place.

The wrestling and dagger work also having modern application in principle but certainly learning a modern Martial art would be an asset.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Christian Henry Tobler
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, CT
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 688

PostPosted: Fri 29 Jul, 2011 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, btw Sean: CFAA isn't just a North American organization. We have several member schools in Europe too!

http://www.chivalricfighting.org/members.htm

Cheers!

Christian

Christian Henry Tobler
Order of Selohaar

Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 416

PostPosted: Fri 29 Jul, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mac and Jean have good points about historical martial arts and self defense or a violent job. I can't say whether Academie Duello is the right school for the OP's brother, but its a good place to learn to fence.

Christian Henry Tobler wrote:
Oh, btw Sean: CFAA isn't just a North American organization. We have several member schools in Europe too!

http://www.chivalricfighting.org/members.htm

Cheers!

Christian

Indeed; my apologies to Hammaborg and SESH and the Exiles for the slight (I'm not familiar with every member organization, especially the European ones, but I know and respect those three).
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Peter O Zwart




Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: 28 Nov 2010

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for your feedback and advice, it's helped allot in giving my brother advice on a group that I had never heard of before. And it makes me look smart Big Grin
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