Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > 1280-1325 Guantlets Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: 1280-1325 Guantlets         Reply with quote

I know that in the range 1280-1325 chainmail was the norm for hand protection. But what are some of the other alternatives. I have seen some of the effigies with what looks like padded gloves done like gambesons it looks like and and some that might show early plates over leather gloves. Any way any help you guys can give me will help Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Likes: 110 pages
Reading list: 18 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,155

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 12:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Patrick, I can't remember where but I know that I've seen gauntlets dating to around this period, made of small whale-bone plates attached to the back of a leather mitten style glove.
Éirinn go Brách
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 677

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 1:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Whale bone gauntlets?
Now that I'd like to see.
And Patrick, you could always try Wisby Type gauntlets.

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
View user's profile Send private message
Scott Kowalski




Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA
Joined: 24 Nov 2006

Posts: 755

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 4:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For what it is worth I have heard the same thing about the whale bone scale gauntlets. I say this because it is from different Osprey titles. I would need to look through my books to confirm which ones but I do know that one of the French Medieval Armies ones has an illustration of them being worn.
Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
View user's profile Send private message
Jonas Balvonas




Location: Amsterdam
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 5:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

maybe this one? it can be made from bone, or steel?
http://www.themcs.org/armour/knights/Buslingt...e%2016.JPG
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are actually by 1290 a great deal of evidence of rigid, plate or perhaps scale gauntlets. By 1300-1310 is when you see in artwork the shift toward plate gauntlets in artwork. Try looking up the Queen Mary Psalter. It is dated to 1300-1310 and is loaded with illustrations of gauntlets. As well Ralph de Nesle has some in his inventory as well.

When I get some work out of the way today I will look for some pictures and more info on this.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the fast replies guys Happy

Jonus thanks that one looks like a nice set of scale guantlets.

Randall thanks for the tip on the Queen Mary Psalter. Already found what look like plate guantlets on one of the images. The top part of this image the one with the crown has them on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...ckburn.jpg

Also the figure right in the center of the top seems to have a coat of plates on with the plates on the outside since they overlap. And I think a couple of them have gorgets maybe. Interesting art work. Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That illustration is actually from the Holkham Bible, dated to 1326. It is of the battle of Bannockburn in 1314 however.

Unfortunately most of the pictures online of the Queen Mary Psalter are only a tiny fragment of the ones that are in the book. I checked the two online sources that usually have the most available but came up empty.

If you go to the British Library website (www.bl.uk) It has an image search and you simply have to input the dates and a key word such as armour and you are good to go.

Here is a link to one you can use at the BL.
http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/welcome.htm

Here is folio 149 v. Sadly the image is not very clear so you cannot see the detail in the gauntlet but it looks to be a simple metacarpal plate with finger scales. The mail is at least fairly clear though.


RPM



 Attachment: 25.24 KB
QMP 149v..JPG



Last edited by Randall Moffett on Fri 29 Apr, 2011 8:41 am; edited 2 times in total
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ahh I see well at least it is close enough the time period I want haha.

Thanks for the linking looking up things now Happy

By the way are the Wisby guantlets the closest serviving quantlets we have? I know they were later but from I know many have suggested they were out dated at the time.
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes. My guess is that some of the Wisby gauntlets were relatively old designs bu Wisby as they look similar to some from artwork of the first decades of the 14th.

We have John de Eltham's 1336 Effigy that shows a very developed form of gauntlet that seems to be an intermediary between the earlier types from the 14th and those of the mid to late 14th.

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/john_of_eltham/

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 9:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Randall that looks like a good example of the transition.

From looking at all of these I am thinking of going with something like this (these are direct copies of one of the wisby guantlets.) http://www.crimsonforge.com/images/20%20-%20Catalog%2005_sm.jpg
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes except the cuffs. You need something that is more close fitting and likely with plates riveted on the inside or outside.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ya more like this http://www.darkheartarmoury.com/averre-gauntlet09.jpg
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 3:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is correct. You also could perhaps simply use a long sleeve mail shirt with little to no cuff at all on the gauntlet.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 4:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thats true I might see what mail shirt I come up with before I make a choice on the gauntlets.
View user's profile Send private message
Aleksei Sosnovski





Joined: 04 Mar 2008

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2011 11:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are pretty developed plate gauntlets on picture in this thread (second knight from the left, wielding an axe in two hands): http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=22972. Check if these fit into your period.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Happened to see another good example I think..... Don Alvaro de Cabrera, Viscount of Ager (1299)
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/alvaro_de_cabrera/

But not sure about the construction of those. The nuckles and fingers seem to be plates. But from the nuckles back looks like it is flexible.
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sun 01 May, 2011 10:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a link to some more on an effigy dated 1319 to 1338. http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments/albrecht_von_hohenlohe/
View user's profile Send private message
Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
Joined: 16 Nov 2008

Posts: 677

PostPosted: Mon 02 May, 2011 3:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Poor Patrick seems to be doing all the leg work Laughing Out Loud
I myself intend to get a pair.



 Attachment: 63.99 KB
protoglove.jpg
A scan I believe. Type II.

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Lawrence





Joined: 07 Feb 2007

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Mon 02 May, 2011 10:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the help Sam Happy
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > 1280-1325 Guantlets
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum