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Jack W. Englund




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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Border Reiver's Swords ??         Reply with quote

What swords did the Reiver's carry ??? (1500s - 1600s ) ( please discount the rapier style )

I have been asked by a friend to "advise" But ....

Jack
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would think that we're talking about better quality swords meant for use on horseback.
German single-hand baskethilt swords, with continental blades of varying type, from Oakeshott XIX to long backsword blades to long, narrow, double-edge blades, sometimes with fuller.
Relatively open native Anglo/Scots single-hand basket hilts (Mary Rose type) mounted on the same continental blades.
German complex-hilt hand-and-a-half swords.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All good candidates, I think:


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hm, maybe even early ribbon hilts with quillons? First one we know of is from portrait of Edward Lyttleton of Longford, 1568...
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you would have seen this type on the border around 1615.


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From Neumann's Swords & Blades of the American Revolution, page 143
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Germanic examples like the sword shown below and the modern sword it it inspired in my own collection might be a good choice, too.

This sword is located in the Museum of Border Arms and Armour, Scotland.


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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:

This sword is located in the Museum of Border Arms and Armour, Scotland.


Too bad the Moffats had to close that up. It was an interesting little place.
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 9:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean, do you have any more info ont this sword from the Wallace Collection?

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=34194
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Hejdström wrote:
Sean, do you have any more info ont this sword from the Wallace Collection?

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=34194


It's on the Wallace Collection web site.

The Wallace Collection wrote:
Sword
Unknown Artist / Maker
c. 1560 - c. 1580
Iron or steel, fish-skin and steel, chiselled
Length: 92.6 cm, blade
Width: 3.5 cm
Width: 1.105 cm
Maker's mark
A519
European Armoury II

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Hejdström wrote:
Sean, do you have any more info on this sword from the Wallace Collection?

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=34194


It's a personal favorite!

# Sword
# Unknown Artist / Maker
#
# c. 1560 - c. 1580
# Iron or steel, fish-skin and steel, chiselled
# Length: 92.6 cm, blade
Width: 3.5 cm
Width: 1.105 cm
# Maker's mark
# A519
# European Armoury II

Direct link: http://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org/eMus...detailView

Wallace Collection Search Page: http://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org/eMus...=highlight

NOTE: You won't get every sword when you search for "sword". Try both "sword" and "longsword" in separate searches. It's probably a good idea to use a similar system when searching for other items ("helmet" and "sallet", for example).

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys, it's a superb sword! I'd want one for my wife I think, she would look great with that one...
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Jack W. Englund




Location: WA State
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Guys. Now the "biggy.??

This individual is just starting to become involved in "portraying a "Reiver" with a small group. He just asked

" Jack, Those examples are great. But my $$$ are some what limited & having a "custom, historical accurate sword is, for now out of my $$ range. My group will accept Swords that although perhaps of a slightly later date ( 1620s ) that still "reflect the Reiver period.
You gave me some ideas of some that may work.
a. Higher end "production makers" - Armor Class etc. Etc.
b. Good "mid range" makers such as Windlass,Hanwei etc.
What swords would you recommend in these $$ brackets ??

Thank You My friend "

Can you guys assist ????

Jack
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Thom R.




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It sounds like $$ might be an issue (as it is for most of us Worried ) so I would think that the Armour Class early baskethilt would probably be the solution for your friend. Scott at Darkwood armory might be able to make one for the about the same price too. that would be my advice. I have had both AC and Darkwood do work for me in the past and can highly recommend them both! tr
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 1:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thom R. nailed it as far as recommendations.
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Jack W. Englund




Location: WA State
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Posts: 186

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 5:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thom R. wrote:
It sounds like $$ might be an issue (as it is for most of us Worried ) so I would think that the Armour Class early baskethilt would probably be the solution for your friend. Scott at Darkwood armory might be able to make one for the about the same price too. that would be my advice. I have had both AC and Darkwood do work for me in the past and can highly recommend them both! tr


Thorn, In addition would "ACs" 17th cent. Tower Hanger ( proto Morturary ) work ???

Jack
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jack W. Englund wrote:
Thorn, In addition would "ACs" 17th cent. Tower Hanger ( proto Morturary ) work ???


I know your'e asking Thom, but my two cents are that I don't personally like it for that purpose. It does not seem well placed as a border weapon in my eyes. It's too late, to boot, for most people's "border needs".

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Windlass Munich sword.
-Sean

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not necessarily recommending this sword - just throwing it into the mix.

The Windlass German Pilsen Rapier

Also, take a look at these Del Tin 16th Century swords --they may cost more than your friend wants to pay.
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Thom R.




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PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmm, well there ceased to be a border after 1603...... one of James I main accomplishments seems to have been pacification of the border marches by about 1610. Therefore I would still vote for an early baskethilt or a late 15th c rapier and shy away from the Tower type hanger or a Munich Town Guard type of sword as both are really 17th c swords more appropriate for ECW, Covenanter War or Irish Confederate War. anyway I understand that there might not be a Windlass sword option for late 16th c right now although I have been thinking what discontinued Windlass model might fit. I just can't bring one to mind right now. There are some Del Tins that would work but they are about the same price as the swords I already rec'd

One thing that could work would be a rather simply hlted sword with one or two side ring(s). Or have your friend get a good dagger for the time being and save up the money for a sword.

The other problem of course with a late 15th c persona is the firearms. Its the period of the wheelock pistol not the flintlock pistol and getting a reproduction wheellock pistol is tricky too. Maybe Gordon will step in and add his advice.

http://www.theborderers.info

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...mp;t=44846
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Jack W. Englund




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PostPosted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thom R. wrote:


The other problem of course with a late 15th c persona is the firearms. Its the period of the wheelock pistol not the flintlock pistol and getting a reproduction wheellock pistol is tricky too. Maybe Gordon will step in and add his advice.



As happens this an area that I have some knowledge of ( via those who make them. ) But the blades = ????

Jack
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