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Rick Ciolli





Joined: 17 Mar 2011

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu 17 Mar, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: help needed what is this?         Reply with quote

only markings are made in Sweden blade length is approx. 12" total length approx. 18" any help would be appreciated


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what is this?
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Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Mar, 2011 5:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Toy / decoration / souvenir.
Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
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Isaac H.




Location: Northern California
Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Mar, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmm....If I had a kid,I wouldn't want him running around the house with that! Eek! Big Grin Is it very sharp?
Wounds of flesh a surgeons skill may heal...

But wounded honor is only cured with steel.

We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.
Each of us should please his neighbor for his good ,to build him up.
Romans 15:1-2
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Mar, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps it is a membership sword for some kind of lodge or fraternal organization.
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Allen Johnson





Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Mar, 2011 7:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Or a victorian opera/stage prop?
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Rick Ciolli





Joined: 17 Mar 2011

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat 19 Mar, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for the replies it is not sharp.Got it at a church sale thought it was unique and cool and when I couldn't find anything online about it thought maybe I got lucky but doesn't seem to be but thank you.
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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Sat 19 Mar, 2011 9:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've got to go with Roger's guess on this one. It reminds me of the kind of thing the Shriner's would have when they paraded at circuses when i was a child. I don't think it is either Shriner or Masonic memorabilia but there were lots of similar organizations at one time. The hilt certainly suggests the Eagles but that is really nothing more than a shot in the dark.

Hey, look at it as a great mystery! Maybe you'll solve it and maybe you won't.
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Sa'ar Nudel




Location: Haifa, Israel
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Mar, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Most fraternal swords I'm aware of are real swords although of light construction - but with tempered steel blades. I tend to think this one is not even steel due to its (what appears to be) integral form. Rick, you may check it with a magent to see if it atracts the blade.
I tend more to the prop solution, theatrical or opera.

Curator of Beit Ussishkin, regional nature & history museum, Upper Galilee.
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Craig Wrenn




Location: Lincoln England
Joined: 07 Jan 2009

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PostPosted: Sat 19 Mar, 2011 3:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Charging sword for a fraternal festive board possibly.
I don't know a lot about Shriners, I think that they are exclusively American masons but I know that some fraternal organisations in England have a smaller sword or dagger for at the meals after ceremonies.

Craig
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Comer Parks




Location: SW MO
Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Mar, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What's it made of? Looks like a decorative piece to me.
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Jamie Szudy




Location: Malaga Spain & Madison, Wisconsin
Joined: 23 Mar 2011

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 4:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The type of sword that it is intended to mimic is a falchion. True falchions are longer relative to the hilt and the wide part near the tip is not nearly so wide, proportionally. This is sort of a caricature of a falchion.

Try doing a search here on the form for "falchion" and you will see many examples of originals.
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Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 11:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sa'ar wrote, "]Most fraternal swords I'm aware of are real swords although of light construction - but with tempered steel blades................I tend more to the prop solution, theatrical or opera."

Well, you won't get much argument from me in part because you are agreeing with me even though you don't know It! Big Grin

I have no idea if the Shriners still do this but half a century ago they used to put on circuses and some of the Shriners would be dressed up in "Arabic" costumes, more like the Disney concept of a genie than any real Arab. In any case, some would be wearing chrome scimitars that were somewhat similar to the artifact we've been asked about.

I don't think it is a Shriner or Masonic item but it may be something from another fraternal order of some kind. Sa'ar suggested that it is a souvenir or decoration, I guess I'd go with that if the item is physically light and flimsy feeling. In the photo it looks like it might be pewter which would make it fairly heavy and probably not just a souvenir or decor item. Part of the mystery comes from the size of the item, its too big for a toy IMHO but too small to be taken as a real weapon or even to represent a real weapon.
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Kurt Scholz





Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 390

PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What are the exact words of the made in inscription and how are the letters placed? That could help to determine date and production conditions.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 23 Mar, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Possibly a decorative Victorian paperweight/letter opener ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Rick Ciolli





Joined: 17 Mar 2011

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon 28 Mar, 2011 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

sorry it's been awhile here is a picture of the made in Sweden it is hard to see sorry I believe it is made of pewter not sure.


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