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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec, 2010 1:22 pm    Post subject: need 18th century Swedish Cav sword pics.....         Reply with quote

Does anyone have pics of M.1729 Swedish Cav Trooper sword Pics? The straight bladed ones.. Maybe a little earlier too? Specifically first half of the 18th century. Searching for pics so I can compare it to something I'm looking at. Cant find any on-line at all. I merely have some drawings in a book. Much appreciated. Thanks,
inkothemgard!
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Stephen Wheatley




Location: DORSET ENGLAND
Joined: 15 Nov 2008

Posts: 91

PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you google' huggare, varja - varjor' you should come up with just the thing on a Swedish site dealing with the era of Karl xii. Can't post the link for some reason!
Stephen Wheatley
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This one?

http://www.sfhm.se/templates/pages/ArmeObject...anguage=SV

More models under the link "Blankvapen-värjor" to the left in the menu. Sabres and similar are under "Sablar" in teh same menu.

/Eric
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Much!!! The hilt I am looking at is very similar. The differences being that the knuckleguard doesnt have the swell in the middle and the quillons are smaller. Hmmmm.


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inkothemgard!
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Tue 28 Dec, 2010 5:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Do you have more pictures of the inscription on the blade? I was thinking that it might be a private commission to an officer in service. it's not entirely uncommon that officers hade to buy much of their equipment themselves. Why not buy a blade to go with your civil dress as well as the uniform?
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Tue 28 Dec, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are more pics of the sword.


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inkothemgard!
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 2:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice pictures. The blade is nice but the fuller seems a bit odd to me. The swedish sideswords are usuallt quite stiff (with exceptions offcourse) and the fuller is usually a bit narrower. There is a very good series of books regarding swedish military swords but it's entirely in swedish. I can try and find out more the next time I'm at the library.

Maybe the markings can provide some help too. The engravings on the blade look very strange to me too, never seen them before.

Edit.
On second thought, there is actually a postal horn depicted on on side of the blade. Maybe a postal couriers sidearm?
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Stephen Wheatley




Location: DORSET ENGLAND
Joined: 15 Nov 2008

Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 4:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric,

Is the book you're speaaking of only about 18th century swords or does it cover the Thirty years war types as well? Wouldn't mind ordering it if it has good illustrations. Reckon I can just about read Swedish if I let my mind loosen a bit!

Stephen Wheatley
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 9:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Morgan,
I checked the books I mentioned before at the library but didn't find anything at all. The hilt seems to be from an ordinary early 18th century officer sword. However the blade bugs me quite a bit. I haven't found a single blade of that shape among the swedish ones, not even on earlier swords.

I would advice you to send an email to the Swedish Army Museum in Stockholm and ask them for help. Here's the adress;
info@armemuseum.se

Stephen,
It's actuallt six books. I think you can order them but I'm not sure from where at the moment. Let me get back to you on that one. The author's name is Olof P. Berg and the books are called "Svenska Blankvapen 1-6"
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 5:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure its not Swedish, there are arsenal/munitions marks on the hilt. I think its something Spanish, but I cant find a spanish pattern for it either....Hmmm.
inkothemgard!
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,831

PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had exactly the same bookmark for the museum when this came up elsewhere but then in seeing the images of the new acquisition, recognized the seller. it had been listed as Spanish infantry until the similarity of the Swedish hilts turned up. The seller is a good egg and i have had a couple of buys from him. His descriptions are generally pretty good. To be honest I have not done a weekly look at his listings in awhile, just to save the wallet.

It may be something about the blade that prompted the listing as Spanish, although there are similarities to some of the Spanish hilts as well. Some of the published and website guides might show it turn up. Alex recycles for a business, so it may have been listed as Spanish in its previous sales.

Cheers

GC
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"It may be something about the blade that prompted the listing as Spanish, although there are similarities to some of the Spanish hilts as well. Some of the published and website guides might show it turn up. Alex recycles for a business, so it may have been listed as Spanish in its previous sales",

Glen,
"I'm pretty sure its not Swedish but if you've seen this hilt before on a spanish pattern or recognize the arsenal markings let me know. I just want to find out what it is in general...I've looked quite a bit and no luck.

inkothemgard!
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Stephen Wheatley




Location: DORSET ENGLAND
Joined: 15 Nov 2008

Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mange tak Eric,

I'll have a look on Amazon they're always sending me books in languages I can't read like Rumanian! Swedish'll be a breeze compared with that!

Stephen Wheatley
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec, 2010 10:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This sword is odd. The blade looks more like a broadsword blade but fit to a swedish hilt. However I haven't found anything on the markings on the quillon either. The fuller is also very long for a sword of this type, it looks more medieval in style than 17/18th century. Perhaps an older blade from a sword of the late 16th or early 17th century that has been refitted. But the hilt is very swedish in the design. Where are all the experts when you need them? Happy

/Eric
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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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Posts: 228

PostPosted: Thu 30 Dec, 2010 12:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the french cavalry also used swords of this style during the 18th century and called them "a la Suedoise" witch means perhaps "like the swedish".

Btw. does anyone know where to get a reproduction of such a sword ?
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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
Joined: 13 Mar 2007

Posts: 184

PostPosted: Thu 30 Dec, 2010 7:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually yes. There is a swedish retailer that sells India made ones of decent quality.
You find them here: http://www.gavelins.com/sword/index.html
You can also order one from Wiira Bruk (where they made the originals back in the 17th century) but those ater quite expensive.

The connection to the french is not at all strange since the swedish aristocracy was indeed very inspired by them. On the other hand, swedish military arms at the time were among the finest in Europe so maybe the french got the inspiration from the swedish.
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Thu 30 Dec, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah, interesting idea! Thats right! The french did use a swedish style sword in the late 17th century. I'll check it out. Hopefully Glen will write back, if he has seen that hilt pattern before in a Spanish hilt. I'm pretty sure its not Swedish. For one think the workmanship isnt up to snuff for a swedish weapon. Also the blade is indeed too wide for Sweden or France. Also the knuckle guard doesnt have the swell in it that the Swedish or Swedish styled French hilts have. The Key must be in the arsenal markings on the quillon. I have written to a Spanish Sword expert but havent heard back from him yet.
inkothemgard!
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,831

PostPosted: Thu 30 Dec, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Morgan Butler wrote:
Ah, interesting idea! Thats right! The french did use a swedish style sword in the late 17th century. I'll check it out. Hopefully Glen will write back, if he has seen that hilt pattern before in a Spanish hilt. I'm pretty sure its not Swedish. For one think the workmanship isnt up to snuff for a swedish weapon. Also the blade is indeed too wide for Sweden or France. Also the knuckle guard doesnt have the swell in it that the Swedish or Swedish styled French hilts have. The Key must be in the arsenal markings on the quillon. I have written to a Spanish Sword expert but havent heard back from him yet.



Quote:
It may be something about the blade that prompted the listing as Spanish, although there are similarities to some of the Spanish hilts as well. Some of the published and website guides might show it turn up. Alex recycles for a business, so it may have been listed as Spanish in its previous sales.
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