Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Roman helmet with face-mask discovered Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Stefan Toivonen




Location: Åbo, Finland
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Roman helmet with face-mask discovered         Reply with quote

"A metal detector enthusiast in Cumbria has discovered a rare Roman bronze helmet complete with face-mask."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-11287093

Looks like a very nice find.
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Likes: 110 pages
Reading list: 18 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,155

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Stefan this is a very interesting find indeed
Éirinn go Brách
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: roman helm         Reply with quote

wow, what an amazing find! Id love to see a modern day reproduction of the helm of what it may have looked like fully painted
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have asked this question a few times to different people but just wanted to ask the Armoury.

What evidence do we have that these were not combat helmets? Are they a different thickness? I am familiar with the sport she is talking about but just curious what info was out there one way or the other. Clearly some cultures used face helmets for war so I have always in the back of my head wondered why they are always so sure about these roman helmets.

Nice find Stefan! An amazing artifact.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
James Head





Joined: 09 Mar 2008

Posts: 127

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Am I the only one who thinks the woman in the video is totally in love with this mask? Like IN LOVE!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Markus A




Location: Germany
Joined: 03 Feb 2010

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 2:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i think she is in love with the expectation of money this thing will bring
the finder did the only right thing sell it an make as much money out of it
in germany he would have been grapped and the authorothies ould have tricked him for the money which it is worth
like it happened to the idiot which did find this silly plate of nebra
thats the spirit sell it and get as much money out of this pot as you can
would do the same
View user's profile Send private message
Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 683

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 3:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a really awesome find!

Randall Moffett wrote:
What evidence do we have that these were not combat helmets? Are they a different thickness? I am familiar with the sport she is talking about but just curious what info was out there one way or the other. Clearly some cultures used face helmets for war so I have always in the back of my head wondered why they are always so sure about these roman helmets.
Well, for one thing, I've never seen one with combat damages on it...

But you are right: many archaeologists are quick to write something off as "ceremonial"...

James Head wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks the woman in the video is totally in love with this mask? Like IN LOVE!
You may be right... Big Grin
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,178

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 3:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Markus A wrote:
i think she is in love with the expectation of money this thing will bring


Well maybe if she was the one getting the money or a commission on the sale. Wink

Money is a great motivator but far from the only one for someone who has a passion for art or history.

On the other point when Governments " take over/confiscate " historically significant finds it's with the goal of preserving history, but when they do it without fair compensation it ends up having the unintentional consequences of people knowing they will be legally robbed by being paid a pittance, many will not declare the find and try to sell it on a black or grey market.

Laws about this must vary greatly from country to country but I think that the best and effective laws do both make sure that the object is properly documented and preserved by a museum and pay a reasonable amount to encourage compliance.

Giving the finder official credit for the find by having their name forever linked to the precious object might also be motivational.

( Just an opinion: When the Government steals, people cheat, just human nature I think Wink Laughing Out Loud )

Oh, and we all want rare objects like this to be preserved: If it was in gold instead of bronze some idiot would have melted it down if they couldn't find a way to illegally sell it to a collector.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Tue 14 Sep, 2010 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,178

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 3:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall Moffett wrote:
I have asked this question a few times to different people but just wanted to ask the Armoury.

What evidence do we have that these were not combat helmets? Are they a different thickness? I am familiar with the sport she is talking about but just curious what info was out there one way or the other. Clearly some cultures used face helmets for war so I have always in the back of my head wondered why they are always so sure about these roman helmets.

Nice find Stefan! An amazing artifact.

RPM


I think the thickness of the metal might tell us something: if very thin it might not be protective enough for use in battle.

Additionally, this one may well be sports or parade armour but less ornate but more functional helms with face masks may also have been in use but the finds are so rare that it's difficult to know what was rare or in common use in period.

But the question is well worth asking. Wink

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,235

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 4:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roman masks intended for battle use usually were far more simple, like this one from the Archeological museum in Zagreb, and were usually iron, not copper alloys:

View user's profile Send private message
Thomas R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 10 May 2010
Likes: 4 pages
Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 395

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 4:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't want to spoil the enthusiasm, but the helm looks to me more like it's thracian. Maybe used by roman auxiliary troops? Confused

Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Stephane Rabier




Location: Brittany
Joined: 13 Nov 2006

Posts: 104

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 8:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thracian?
Hi, I don't understand why that head wears a Phygian cap, could it be linked to a cult of Mithras?
View user's profile Send private message
JG Elmslie
Industry Professional



Location: Scotland
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 9:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Markus A wrote:
i think she is in love with the expectation of money this thing will bring
the finder did the only right thing sell it an make as much money out of it
in germany he would have been grapped and the authorothies ould have tricked him for the money which it is worth
like it happened to the idiot which did find this silly plate of nebra
thats the spirit sell it and get as much money out of this pot as you can
would do the same


Actually, as it was found in the UK, I would expect the find was almost certainly immediately passed to the Portable Antiquities Scheme as treasure, as it could be defined as such by law. (all coin finds are classed as such, and I suspect this would as well, even though its not precious metal). At that point it would've gone to the nation as a find, and into the care of national museums for curatorial restoration assessment and protection. if it has'nt been cleaned and treated by them I'm absolutely amazed at the condition its in.
it is now being auctioned, where it may be bought by a museum for the nation, or potentially be outbid by a private collector.

In such cases, the find is valued, and the finder receives a significant reward proportional to the value of the object(s) discovered, and the national heritage is not sold off peacemeal by unscrupulous scavengers destroying archaeological sites, as has happened in so many countries.

She is simply a spokesperson for the actioneer's dealing with the find. if anything, she is in love with the fact that it is an incredible artefact.


Last edited by JG Elmslie on Tue 14 Sep, 2010 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,306

PostPosted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 9:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Avete!

There is a thread about this on the Roman Army Talk board, with a few more details.

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30123

Valete,

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Roman helmet with face-mask discovered
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum