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Stefan Toivonen
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 Posted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 12:05 pm Post subject: Roman helmet with face-mask discovered |
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"A metal detector enthusiast in Cumbria has discovered a rare Roman bronze helmet complete with face-mask."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-11287093
Looks like a very nice find.
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Stephen Curtin
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| Posted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Stefan this is a very interesting find indeed
Éirinn go Brách
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Reece Nelson
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| Posted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: roman helm |
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wow, what an amazing find! Id love to see a modern day reproduction of the helm of what it may have looked like fully painted
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I have asked this question a few times to different people but just wanted to ask the Armoury.
What evidence do we have that these were not combat helmets? Are they a different thickness? I am familiar with the sport she is talking about but just curious what info was out there one way or the other. Clearly some cultures used face helmets for war so I have always in the back of my head wondered why they are always so sure about these roman helmets.
Nice find Stefan! An amazing artifact.
RPM
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James Head
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| Posted: Mon 13 Sep, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Am I the only one who thinks the woman in the video is totally in love with this mask? Like IN LOVE!
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Markus A
Location: Germany Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 2:43 am Post subject: |
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i think she is in love with the expectation of money this thing will bring
the finder did the only right thing sell it an make as much money out of it
in germany he would have been grapped and the authorothies ould have tricked him for the money which it is worth
like it happened to the idiot which did find this silly plate of nebra
thats the spirit sell it and get as much money out of this pot as you can
would do the same
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Paul Hansen
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| Posted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 3:10 am Post subject: |
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That's a really awesome find!
| Randall Moffett wrote: | | What evidence do we have that these were not combat helmets? Are they a different thickness? I am familiar with the sport she is talking about but just curious what info was out there one way or the other. Clearly some cultures used face helmets for war so I have always in the back of my head wondered why they are always so sure about these roman helmets. |
Well, for one thing, I've never seen one with combat damages on it...
But you are right: many archaeologists are quick to write something off as "ceremonial"...
| James Head wrote: | | Am I the only one who thinks the woman in the video is totally in love with this mask? Like IN LOVE! |
You may be right... 
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Markus A wrote: | i think she is in love with the expectation of money this thing will bring
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Well maybe if she was the one getting the money or a commission on the sale. 
Money is a great motivator but far from the only one for someone who has a passion for art or history.
On the other point when Governments " take over/confiscate " historically significant finds it's with the goal of preserving history, but when they do it without fair compensation it ends up having the unintentional consequences of people knowing they will be legally robbed by being paid a pittance, many will not declare the find and try to sell it on a black or grey market.
Laws about this must vary greatly from country to country but I think that the best and effective laws do both make sure that the object is properly documented and preserved by a museum and pay a reasonable amount to encourage compliance.
Giving the finder official credit for the find by having their name forever linked to the precious object might also be motivational.
( Just an opinion: When the Government steals, people cheat, just human nature I think  )
Oh, and we all want rare objects like this to be preserved: If it was in gold instead of bronze some idiot would have melted it down if they couldn't find a way to illegally sell it to a collector.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Tue 14 Sep, 2010 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Randall Moffett wrote: | I have asked this question a few times to different people but just wanted to ask the Armoury.
What evidence do we have that these were not combat helmets? Are they a different thickness? I am familiar with the sport she is talking about but just curious what info was out there one way or the other. Clearly some cultures used face helmets for war so I have always in the back of my head wondered why they are always so sure about these roman helmets.
Nice find Stefan! An amazing artifact.
RPM |
I think the thickness of the metal might tell us something: if very thin it might not be protective enough for use in battle.
Additionally, this one may well be sports or parade armour but less ornate but more functional helms with face masks may also have been in use but the finds are so rare that it's difficult to know what was rare or in common use in period.
But the question is well worth asking.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Roman masks intended for battle use usually were far more simple, like this one from the Archeological museum in Zagreb, and were usually iron, not copper alloys:
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Thomas R.
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| Posted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 4:34 am Post subject: |
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I don't want to spoil the enthusiasm, but the helm looks to me more like it's thracian. Maybe used by roman auxiliary troops? 
Thomas
http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Stephane Rabier
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| Posted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Thracian?
Hi, I don't understand why that head wears a Phygian cap, could it be linked to a cult of Mithras?
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JG Elmslie
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 14 Sep, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Markus A wrote: | i think she is in love with the expectation of money this thing will bring
the finder did the only right thing sell it an make as much money out of it
in germany he would have been grapped and the authorothies ould have tricked him for the money which it is worth
like it happened to the idiot which did find this silly plate of nebra
thats the spirit sell it and get as much money out of this pot as you can
would do the same |
Actually, as it was found in the UK, I would expect the find was almost certainly immediately passed to the Portable Antiquities Scheme as treasure, as it could be defined as such by law. (all coin finds are classed as such, and I suspect this would as well, even though its not precious metal). At that point it would've gone to the nation as a find, and into the care of national museums for curatorial restoration assessment and protection. if it has'nt been cleaned and treated by them I'm absolutely amazed at the condition its in.
it is now being auctioned, where it may be bought by a museum for the nation, or potentially be outbid by a private collector.
In such cases, the find is valued, and the finder receives a significant reward proportional to the value of the object(s) discovered, and the national heritage is not sold off peacemeal by unscrupulous scavengers destroying archaeological sites, as has happened in so many countries.
She is simply a spokesperson for the actioneer's dealing with the find. if anything, she is in love with the fact that it is an incredible artefact.
Last edited by JG Elmslie on Tue 14 Sep, 2010 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Matthew Amt
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This is a standard topic