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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 10:53 am    Post subject: XV th century guns- contact to makers needed!         Reply with quote

Hello

Does anyone know where can I buy decent 15 th cent blackpowder gun(replica)? I am interested only in full battle ready replica that is safe to fire bullets. I prefer makers from Europe because of tax, duty, shipping costs etc..., but I would appreciate any contact.

www.elchon.com

Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd be interested in the same in a North American context.

J

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Martin Wallgren




Location: Bjästa, Sweden
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: XV th century guns- contact to makers needed!         Reply with quote

Michal Plezia wrote:
Hello

Does anyone know where can I buy decent 15 th cent blackpowder gun(replica)? I am interested only in full battle ready replica that is safe to fire bullets. I prefer makers from Europe because of tax, duty, shipping costs etc..., but I would appreciate any contact.


Albrechts Bössor would know! They specialises as a reenactment group portraying a late 14 century company in Sweden during the reign of King Albrecht of Mechlenburg.

Here is a link to their homepage and forum!
http://www.albrechts.se/

Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.musketmart.com/
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MML.shtml
http://www.militaryheritage.com/musket15.htm
http://www.loyalistarms.com/matchlockmusket.html

Difficult to find before the late 16th or 17 th. century matchlocks but maybe some of these would be able to custom make or find a makers of earlier musketz/handgoonnes ?

Historic Enterprises used to have a 15th century one in their product listing ( rarely in stock, but I can't find it on their site at the moment ).

http://historicenterprises.com/

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Rob Stanford




Location: ACT AUstralia
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: Guns         Reply with quote

I recently dealt with middlesex trading and it all went very well, they were happy to answer questions and you can return products within if you are not satisfied (as long as you haven't shot them). I tried to contact military heritage about the same item and got no response ever...

Good luck,

Rob
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the Loyallistarms one because it has the lever type " trigger " and looks a little earlier but hard to justify it much before the 1550 -1580 period.

John Buck of Musket Mart is more a custom maker and would be the best bet for getting exactly the right period look.

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Martin Wallgren




Location: Bjästa, Sweden
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Albert Collins has done one or two if I´m not missinformed!
His stuff is shown here... www.viaarmorari.com ...under the weapons section.

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Nathan Gilleland





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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On a similar note, are there any makers of blank firing flintlocks or wheellocks for outdoor stage? Or would it be safe to use a fully functional replica and just omit the bullet during the loading?
Seek Honor before Wealth,
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Gilleland wrote:
On a similar note, are there any makers of blank firing flintlocks or wheellocks for outdoor stage? Or would it be safe to use a fully functional replica and just omit the bullet during the loading?


Safe is a relative term since the wad itself can be very dangerous or lethal very close up.

There is an actor a couple of decades ago who put a blank firing pistol to his head and blasted a chunk of is skull into his brain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum

Stupid and impulsive move that he would probably not have done if he took a few seconds to think before pulling the trigger.

At the very least he should have anticipated a bad powder burn, very sad and I think based on ignorance of the dangers. WTF?!

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Nathan Gilleland





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I realize the dangers with using these firearms. This is why I am most interested in a blank firing model rather than simply omitting the ammunition (though both have inherent dangers).

I am most interested in a wheellock pistol that fires blanks suitable for outdoor theatre. Any links or suggested makers?

Seek Honor before Wealth,
Truth before Honor,
God Before all
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GG Osborne





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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 1:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Take a look at The Rifle Shoppe (www.therifleshoppe.com). They absolutely have everything from medieval hand cannons to mid-19th century militaria. They sell parts kits so you have to find someone to assemble the final product but there are several people who that. It's a bit on the pricey side but if you want something distinctive, its the best game in town.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Chuck P




Location: illinois
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the rifle shoppe is a wonderful resource, and i have built many rifles, and restored many originals including baker rifle, 1776 contract rifle, matchlock caliver, but, be warned, they have a reputation for long waiting periods. this is a well known fact in the custom gun building world. if you are lucky enough to order something in stock, they are great, and very quick. if you happen to need something thats not in stock, be prepared for possibly a 2 year wait. most recently i ordered parts to restore an 1841 mississippi rifle. the parts were delivered quickly, but some were undersize due to shrinkage. i notified them, and they said they were aware of the problem, and were working on it, send the parts back, and we will replace them. weel, long story short, it took just shy of 2 years to get the replacement parts.
sadly, they have us all by the hip,....they are the only game in town for most of this stuff,....and they know it !!!!!
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Thu 29 Jul, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Rifle Shoppe is a good choice but what they sell are parts which are rough cast and need a lot of fitting in most cases. They can refer you to gunstockers who will assemble the parts for you but in that instance you are talking about a lot of money. The quality is certainly there.

Middlesex Village Trading is another good source. All of their guns are made in India and can be fired. Pete is helpful and knows his products. The work on most is good, some of their pieces are more authentic than others and all have too much wood on them. If you are handy with tools you can modify the guns to your liking. Military Heritage and Loyalist Arms sell basically the same thing as Middlesex Village although they may all carry something their competitors do not from time to time.

Musketmart is one individual making custom guns. Very expensive and not real quick. I have a pistol on order from him which I think has been about six months in the making now with no ETA at the moment. Have never seen anything but photos of his work so I cannot vouch for it...yet! I will let you know when it arrives.

Another source used to be something I ran across by entering "handgonne" in the browser. Also looked like a small shop making mostly custom stuff but they offered a large variety. I don't know if they are still active.

Don't be too concerned about blank charges in these guns. Some FFFG powder and a loose fitting wad will make a good report without much breech pressure. Someone referred to Jon Erik Hexum (I believe it was), an actor who killed himself by accident with a blank. He fired a .44 magnum blank into his head at a range of a couple of inches. That is easy enough to avoid.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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John Waller




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Derbyshire Arms in the UK do a range of flintlocks converted for re-enactment and stage use that fire 9mm blanks. Gary also makes a wheellock pistol but only as a live firer. Basically any of the flinters can be converted to fire 9mm blanks. Web site is not fully up and running as Gary sadly lost his wife Joan recently and his efforts have obviously been elsewhere. Happily he is back trading and the business seems to be doing really well.

http://www.derbyshirearms.com

If you must have wheellock then I have seen some custom made guns that had a small .22 blank-firing revolver built into the stock used by some English Civil War cavalry re-enactors. They look OK from 10 yards but the report is not very loud.
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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Wed 11 Aug, 2010 3:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the links guys. If you find any other please post them here.
www.elchon.com

Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Ezequiel Lavaca





Joined: 14 Oct 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Aug, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Gilleland wrote:
I realize the dangers with using these firearms. This is why I am most interested in a blank firing model rather than simply omitting the ammunition (though both have inherent dangers).

I am most interested in a wheellock pistol that fires blanks suitable for outdoor theatre. Any links or suggested makers?


If you are interested on matchlock and wheelock pistols, please check Prof. Osvaldo Gatto

http://www.osvaldogatto.com

I have a wheelock pistol working with pirite as the original ones!!!!
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Matthew Stagmer
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Location: Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Aug, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
http://www.musketmart.com/
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MML.shtml
http://www.militaryheritage.com/musket15.htm
http://www.loyalistarms.com/matchlockmusket.html

Difficult to find before the late 16th or 17 th. century matchlocks but maybe some of these would be able to custom make or find a makers of earlier musketz/handgoonnes ?

Historic Enterprises used to have a 15th century one in their product listing ( rarely in stock, but I can't find it on their site at the moment ).

http://historicenterprises.com/


I have shot one of the loyalist arms guns! Worked well for me. Did some modification on the one I shot to make it look a bit nicer but nice gun for the price.

Matthew Stagmer
Maker of custom and production weaponry
www.BaltimoreKnife.com
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Hadrian Coffin
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Location: Oxford, England
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Aug, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To the original poster:
If the weapon is for yourself you may be able to make one. A few of the parts may need to be purchased, for safety reasons... and difficulty of manufacture. Most of the gun though is not particularly difficult to make. From what I have seen of your work, I would think you are more than capable. Here you can see instructions detailing some of the work required.

If you go to http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~dispater/handgonnes.htm and scroll all the way down there are links to various sites with information on early period firearms, instructions, and places to purchase.

There are many makers of Matchlocks, Wheelocks, Handgonnes, etc. in India now.... I would advise staying away from these. Some are relatively decent, while others are literally unsafe. Determining the quality of these Indian produced firearms without seeing them in person is often difficult.

Concerning blank firing matchlocks:
These are hard to find, and difficult to actually get. To make one safe for firing blanks.... it is pretty much safe to fire projectiles. I would advise simply purchasing a full firing model and omitting the ball when shooting. Ones modeled as "blank-firing" are occasionally not proofed and sometimes not safe. In a muzzle loading firearm there is really nothing to stop someone from putting a projectile down the barrel. The only way to make it actually blank firing you have to change the overall look of the firearm.
Even many of the non-firing prop muzzleloading firearms only require the touchhole to be drilled in order to make the gun fire.

Cheers,
Hadrian

Historia magistra vitae est
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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Aug, 2010 12:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Hadrian.
www.elchon.com

Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Gottfried P. Doerler




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PostPosted: Fri 20 Aug, 2010 2:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i`m quite fond of the rifle shoppe.
the only problem is - you have to set the parts together by yourself, or have to find a someone who does it for you.
(besides they are one of the very few sites that offer wheel-locks)
handgonnes:http://www.therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/h...gonnes.htm
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