Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Any gauntlets from ancient greek times? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Robert Rootslane




Location: Estonia
Joined: 06 Aug 2007

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Any gauntlets from ancient greek times?         Reply with quote

Hi!

A friend of mine asked me to do a bit of a research. He is interested if the macedonians or greeks in Alexanders army, or in some other army in that time wore any kind of gauntlets or maby some other armor to protect their fingers and hands.
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,302

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hoo, not that I've ever seen. Greaves are common, but guards for the arms and thighs were comparatively rare. There is a nice hinged foot guard in the British Museum, REALLY rare. But nothing Greek for the hands.

There *might* be some sort of handguard with Persian or Parthian cataphract armor (heavy cavalry), maybe just a plate for the back of the hand but possibly something more substantial. It's just not something I've researched, so I don't know.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall some sort of a guard for the left hand for some armored Hellenistic cavalry, since they didn't carry shields. But again, I'm not sure.

Pretty sure that soft leather gloves did exist, though they were also quite uncommon, and they weren't armor.

Sorry, not much to go on!

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 4:00 pm    Post subject: greek hand armour         Reply with quote

I wouldn't be surprised if they had some sort of hand protection. The guards on there swords are not very big, and I imagine you would get poped on the hands a lot.

A lot of viking reenactors wear padded gloves, but none of the texts or art depict of them wearing any sort of hand protection that I'v seen.
View user's profile Send private message
Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

that's because most of us have a 9-5 day job that we use our hands for. Happy the evidence just isn't there for time period gauntlets
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional



Location: upstate NY
Joined: 10 Nov 2005

Posts: 527

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What about this thing in Olympus? I've been meaning to ask about it; it is labeled as a 'gauntlet', if the source I got it from is to be believed.


 Attachment: 97.39 KB
GrGauntlet.jpg


jamesarlen.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,190

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 10:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Come to think of it, I seem to recall some sort of a guard for the left hand for some armored Hellenistic cavalry, since they didn't carry shields. But again, I'm not sure.

You might be thinking of Xenophon. He proposes a piece of protection either for the hand or forearm for cavalrymen but it is in the context of a hypothetical invention, not an existing item that they were using. He also suggests cutting out part of the right shoulder of the cuirass to make it easier to throw a javelin, but I'm not aware of any extant cuirasses that have this type of modification.
View user's profile Send private message
Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,576

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jul, 2010 11:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hands, interestingly enough, is probably the last part of the body to be armoured...
For sparring, gloves are essential. In periods where hand protection was not common (like anything untill late 14th c, if not in full armour...) , simply consider it safety equipment when fighting, like tooth guards or cups.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,302

PostPosted: Mon 19 Jul, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:
What about this thing in Olympus? I've been meaning to ask about it; it is labeled as a 'gauntlet', if the source I got it from is to be believed.


Oh, that's interesting! Hard to be sure without trying it on. But if it's a gauntlet, it seems to be for the *left* hand, which suggests a rein hand guard, since infantry would have a shield.

Ancient sword guards were not really designed for parrying, since that's what a shield was for.

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 08 May 2009
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 1,493

PostPosted: Wed 21 Jul, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:
What about this thing in Olympus? I've been meaning to ask about it; it is labeled as a 'gauntlet', if the source I got it from is to be believed.


In K. Kristiansen, "The tale of the sword - swords and swordfighters in Bronze Age Europe", Oxford Journal of Archaeology 21(4) 319-332 (2002), I find the following footnote:

"The Mycenaean chiefly warriors employed specially designed hand-protectors of bronze (Senaki-Sakellariou 1985, pl. IX, T.15, 2780), in addition to the full armoour (cuirass, greaves, helmet, etc.) known from Dendra"

The reference is to: SENAKI-SAKELLARIOU, A. 1985: Les tombes a` chambre de Myce`nes. Fouilles de Chr. Tsountas (18871898) (Paris). A quick search doesn't find this either in my local library or on www.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,190

PostPosted: Wed 21 Jul, 2010 6:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First I've heard of this. There definitely wasn't any hand protection found at Dendra.
View user's profile Send private message
Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 415

PostPosted: Wed 21 Jul, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Any gauntlets from ancient greek times?         Reply with quote

Robert Rootslane wrote:
Hi!

A friend of mine asked me to do a bit of a research. He is interested if the macedonians or greeks in Alexanders army, or in some other army in that time wore any kind of gauntlets or maby some other armor to protect their fingers and hands.

As far as I know, hand armour is almost unknown before the middle ages. Early on the Greeks made bronze plate for almost every body part, but I've never seen an ancient Greek gauntlet.

The oldest surviving gauntlet I know of is this one, said to be 6th/7th century Persian. The banded armour which some ancient soldiers wore on their arms might occasionally have covered the hands but I don't know of proof. Xenophon mentions it in the 4th century BCE and there is some artistic evidence from around that period; it was definitely used in the Hellenistic age.
View user's profile Send private message
Christopher H





Joined: 06 Mar 2008

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed 21 Jul, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some interesting stuff here: http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/armour4.htm
View user's profile Send private message
S. Jansone




Location: Latvia
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed 21 Jul, 2010 11:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting website.

But regarding main question- never have meet with additional gauntlets in Macedonian army. Some changes are in late Hellenistic armies, when there are more Eastern influence- then maybe we could start to talk about Persian inspired foregoer, but I have never met anything like that in Alexander's army.
Would be glad to see if anyone has any evidence.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,190

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 2:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The item was originally misidentified as ankle protection. I won't believe that it is hand armour until some who actually knows something about armour personally examines it.
View user's profile Send private message
James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional



Location: upstate NY
Joined: 10 Nov 2005

Posts: 527

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jul, 2010 9:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

HOLY CRAP! Eek! Eek! Seen at those other angles, it really does look like a gauntlet! It sure ain't no ankle guard.
jamesarlen.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Johann M




Location: London
Joined: 23 Aug 2007

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri 23 Jul, 2010 1:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:
HOLY CRAP! Eek! Eek! Seen at those other angles, it really does look like a gauntlet! It sure ain't no ankle guard.


Agreed, it would seem to work easier as hand protection than for the ankle. <ore photos from different angles would be nice.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Any gauntlets from ancient greek times?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum