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Michael S. Rivet





Joined: 12 Apr 2006

Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jun, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Plates woven into mail         Reply with quote

Some indeterminate time ago, someone posted a picture of an antique shirt of maille that had plates woven into it. The plates were, if I recall, oriented vertically and had holes in their edges through which the rings of the maille were closed. I seem to remember there were four such plates on the front of the shirt and they covered both chest and abdomen.

Unfortunately, that's about all I remember except that I was really fascinated by the piece and wanted to learn more about it. I either failed to save the picture or lost it somewhere. Likewise with any accompanying information. None of my searches have yielded anything thus far.

So I'm putting out an APB. Is there anyone out there with a better memory than I and a kindly heart who might point me in the direction of this piece or something similar?
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Jun, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mixed small plates and maille where popular in middle Eastern armour and where also used by the Japanese in somewhat different styles.

The medieval Russians also used maille and plate as they where influenced by their neigbours and enemies' armours and fighting style: Persians, Mongols, Indian/Indo-Persian and various nomadic tribes.

On page 23 of this Topic there is a good example of the style:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...;start=660

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jun, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It was probably a turkish yushman or it's sindh or moro version.
For Yushman see here:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=192585
For sindh armor see here:
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9582/armor9zh5.jpg
For moro armor:
http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1940.8.2.jpg
http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/images/s206.jpg
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 805

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jun, 2010 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Plates woven into mail         Reply with quote

Michael S. Rivet wrote:
Some indeterminate time ago, someone posted a picture of an antique shirt of maille that had plates woven into it. The plates were, if I recall, oriented vertically and had holes in their edges through which the rings of the maille were closed. I seem to remember there were four such plates on the front of the shirt and they covered both chest and abdomen.

Unfortunately, that's about all I remember except that I was really fascinated by the piece and wanted to learn more about it. I either failed to save the picture or lost it somewhere. Likewise with any accompanying information. None of my searches have yielded anything thus far.

So I'm putting out an APB. Is there anyone out there with a better memory than I and a kindly heart who might point me in the direction of this piece or something similar?
Here is a Japanese (samurai) version of what you described and a Middle Eastern or Indian version
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Carl Goff




Location: Florida
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jun, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think Hisham Gaballa is our resident expert on that style. Go through his post history, and you might be able to turn up what you're looking for.
Oh, East of sands and sunlit gulf, your blood is thin, your gods are few;
You could not break the Northern wolf and now the wolf has turned on you.
The fires that light the coasts of Spain fling shadows on the Eastern strand.
Master, your slave has come again with torch and axe in his right hand!
-Robert E. Howard
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jun, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You are describing mail and plate armour, which was used in the Middle-East, Russia, Iran and India from the late 14th to the early 18th centuries.

The plates came in various sizes and combinations. Four large square plates at the front sounds like Mughul-style mail and plate armour which was used in India from the 16th to the early 18th century.

These occasionally come up for sale on the Oriental Arms website:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=473

And on Hermann Historica:
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm59...at59_a.txt

More pics:
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