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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: 1700 colonial Spanish sword?         Reply with quote

I am going to portray a Spanish Former officer of the Tercio de Morados Viejos, who lives now (around 1700) the relativly quiet live of a Spanish militia leader in southern Nueva Espana.

My question is, what sword would I carry?

My thought is, that it's to late for a typical Spanish cuphilt rapier, but would not like to carry some kind of dress sword, because that wouldn't be to practical for cutting my way through the jungle or the Buccaneers for that matter...

So any thoughts on something servicable military ano 1700..?

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise man…

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Mark A Smith




Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a period sword that was probably made for Spanish Colonial use. A one-piece brass grip with a basket guard. The cup hilt has Toledo markings that date it to the period c.1700-40, engraved with a large “R” surmounted with a crown in the center of the shell and a large “A” to the right. Faint engravings can still be seen on the blade, a jumping deer, Celtic-like knotwork, and a spray similar to a fleur-de-lys, but with five leaves above and below.

The sword ia a transitional piece, shorter than an average rapier. The blade has a shallow center fuller that begins 4 inches from the hilt and continue almost to the tip. Another sharp, narrow fuller follows the spine parallel to the first fuller but leaves off 2/3 of the way down the blade. Overall length: 32” Blade length: 27” Blade width at top: 1 ¼” Blade Thickness at top: ¼”. Balance point: 2 ½ inches from the hilt.

For larger and more detailed photos see:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4947469...450002/detail/

A brass grip similar to this was identified as coming from a Spanish wreck in the early 1700’s.



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Spanish Sword c. 1700

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Blade Detail

"...nothing can hurt me as long as I keep this bucket on my head."
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Mark A Smith




Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interestingly enough, Folkert,

I bought this sword from someone in the Netherlands who told me it was a Dutch sword. I figure it probably found its way there during the many entanglements your people had with Spain.

"...nothing can hurt me as long as I keep this bucket on my head."
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How about a Bilbo - http://www.goantiques.com/detail,antique-span...13914.html - unfortunately, not too many replicas are available.
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Mark A Smith




Location: Portland, OR
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1700 colonial Spanish sword?         Reply with quote

Folkert van Wijk wrote:
I ... would not like to carry some kind of dress sword, because that wouldn't be to practical for cutting my way through the jungle or the Buccaneers for that matter...

So any thoughts on something servicable military ano 1700..?


Saw this on eBay, but it's probably a century later than you have in mind, but if you needed to chop through jungles or Buccaneers, I'd that this one any day.



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"...nothing can hurt me as long as I keep this bucket on my head."
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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 206

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr, 2010 2:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These are cool suggestions guys thanks allready.

Any more ideas?

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise man…

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Josh Brown




Location: Renton, WA
Joined: 08 Sep 2005

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon 03 May, 2010 12:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
How about a Bilbo - http://www.goantiques.com/detail,antique-span...13914.html - unfortunately, not too many replicas are available.

These military swords would be appropriate to the time period and location. So would a cup-hilt with a broader blade:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=14191
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10827
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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 206

PostPosted: Mon 03 May, 2010 11:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, I like the cuphilt broadsword thing. Very Spanish and functional for the occasion to!
A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise man…

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Likes: 2 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 206

PostPosted: Mon 03 May, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just found myself another one of this type http://faganarms.com/aspanishbroadswordc1750.aspx
A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise man…

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Alan H. Weller




Location: Palo Alto, CA
Joined: 31 Oct 2006

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue 04 May, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What about the espada ancha? I saw several at the Museum of the Palace of the Governors in Santa Fe. Check this out:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/espadaan/index.html
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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 04 May, 2010 1:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

or maybe just a windlass bilbo ?
fine looks, and the price will be ok ~ 260 $



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Therion Spanish Bilbo.jpg

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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
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PostPosted: Tue 04 May, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The problem with that Windlass Bilbo, is that I believe that particular version is closer to 1800 than 1700.

Those esapada anchas -- that's what people were using in the New World, but they sure are ugly.
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Joe Pittman




Location: Memphis, Tenn.
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
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Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon 02 May, 2016 2:10 pm    Post subject: Actually         Reply with quote

The Windlass is a 1796 Spainish Heavy Cavlary Sword
Long Life
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