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Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 4:37 pm    Post subject: Shamshir from Cold Steel         Reply with quote

The door bell rang this morning and there was a long box and a Federal Express deliveryman waiting for me to sign for it. I had not been expecting this sword until next week and so was pleasantly surprised. I had been looking at the Shamshir/Kalij for sometime now since seeing a review of it on Sword Buyers Guide. Somehow it was put on the backburner and the Spartan Lakonian came into play. After letting the wife settle down after that purchase I finally broached the subject on the Shamshir and got the immediate reaction from her I expected "...just how many swords do you need?" After serious discussion and negotiation (the way most money conflicts are resolved at our house) she got something and I got the sword or let's say I could order the sword.

There are two varieties of the Shamshir, one carries the Cold Steel name and the other carries the Windlass name although both are made by Windlass. The real difference is that Cold Steel blades come very sharp indeed and have been tested and checked for defects. Windlass blades do not come sharpened unless requested and most likely are sharpened at the distributors. Cold Steel has an excellent reputation for keen blades. Eitherway, the Windlass blade is well tempered and well done. The suiggested retail price is $369.00 for the Cold Steel and the Windlass is around $199.00.

I paid $209.00 for my Cold Steel from True Sword and have seen the Windlass advertised at Two Clicks for $169.00. I checked my sword on delivery and it was sharp and cut paper like a razor. The fit and finish were first rate. For those wanting to add a Scaracen sword to their collection it fits the bill in my opinion.

I am going to add links to YouTube videos showing tribal dances in South Saudi Arabia using Shamshirs while they dance and shoot off muzzle loading snaphances. Also, I will follow up with some pictures of my sword doing some cutting of tatami mats but I am out them at present.

Happy Easter Everyone and God Bless, Christ has Risen

Harry

This is part of the evenings festivities at a Saudi Arabian town's celebration. Just look at all those swords in action!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjMGEP5_tg0&am...eo=019SdEA

This is an afternoon ceremony with snaphances being fired and at the beginning if you look closely you will see a shamshir sword. As the video progresses you can see other types of swords on close viewing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn-rqKgPQaA&am...yaavNUNOUM



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To Study The Edge of History


Last edited by Harry J. Fletcher on Mon 05 Apr, 2010 9:14 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

happy easter.
i never owned a piece from coldsteel or windless. as for now, i`ve always sticked to czech craftsmen, who always pleased me with sufficiant quality for a reasonable price.
but if i one day want a sword with real cutting power and the feeling, it might be used in earnest, i`d come to coldsteel.
their cutting test videos are really impressive and convincing, i especially liked their 1796er light cavalry.
so congrats to your acquisition, a nice piece.
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Sean O Stevens




Location: Grovetown, GA
Joined: 22 Oct 2008

Posts: 208

PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have the Cold Steel Shamshir as well and, for the money, its a good buy. I prefer the look and fittings of the Windlass Scimitar but I like my CS Shamshir just fine.
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How is the edge - is it a secondary bevel, flat grind all the way to the edge, convex-ground, or something else?

Their swords that I've handled - 1 Japanese-style, 1 European-style, 1 Chinese-style - have good edges without a secondary bevel, but these are all made in China. Their naval dirk, made in India, comes with a quite ugly secondary bevel.

If the shamshir comes with a similarly ugly secondary bevel, I'd be very tempted to fix it, and at that point, might as well get the unsharpened Windlass and sharpen it. Any thoughts? How is it?

(I don't mean to say that all secondary bevels are ugly, but the one on the dirk was.)
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Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Edge on Cold Steel Shamshir         Reply with quote

Hello Timo,

Well I hesitate to say since I am not that keen on sharpening but edge is very sharp. It is not an appleseed edge or a track edge and angle from the blade about 25 degrees each side. Is that what you mean by a secondary edge? I always thought a secondary was angled from the blade and had another angle from that angle. Anyway it is sharp and wouldn't take much work to bring up to your par. Me, I am not that picky. I can do a touch up but if my katana needs an edge, I am sending it off for a monouchi sharpening job, $79.00 plus shipping. For me, Mr. Bumble Fingers, it is worth the expense every 18 months or so with a working katana. My Tinker Viking on the other hand can be touched up quite handily,

Anyway, enough of my shortcomings, I do recommend you get the Cold Steel if only for the warranty. I couldn't begin to attempt to try sharpen the Windlass.

Hope that helps. By the way, do the Australian use Kangaroos instead of Easter Bunnies to deliver Easter eggs?

Regards,

Harry

To Study The Edge of History
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A secondary bevel can be very sharp and historically correct depending on the sword and one can always " apple seed it "
by blending the bevels where they meet to a rounded rather than and obvious transition to a different bevel.

A bad secondary bevel to me aesthetically would be a rough or ragged one with vibration marks or one varying in width along the edge or of a different angle on one side of the blade than the other: It might still be sharp but would look grinder sharpened by someone with a shaky hand on a too rough grit wheel with a vibrating/stuttering wheel grinder.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 9:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Jean,

Could you provide an illustration for neophytes like me to look at. This has always been a shortcoming on my part and guess I need to address it if I am to continue to play with swords.


Happy Easter and God Bless

Harry

To Study The Edge of History
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Edge on Cold Steel Shamshir         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
Hello Timo,

Well I hesitate to say since I am not that keen on sharpening but edge is very sharp. It is not an appleseed edge or a track edge and angle from the blade about 25 degrees each side. Is that what you mean by a secondary edge? I always thought a secondary was angled from the blade and had another angle from that angle.


That a fair description of a secondary bevel. Some will call an appleseed edge a secondary bevel blended with the primary grind, others will say it isn't secondary. I don't know "track edge".

25 degrees each side? For a 50 degree edge? I think I must mistake your meaning.

Like Jean says, it's possible to do a secondary edge very badly. Or do it well. My Kizlyar shashka has a very well done secondary (the primary is hollow-ground), about 12 or 13 degrees on each side (so the angle of the actual edge is about 25 degrees). Not especially sharp, but enough - I've not touched the edge. On the other hand, I recently fixed two bad secondary bevel edges. One was originally not very sharp, just somewhat sharp, and is now still not very sharp, still just somewhat sharp, perhaps a little more than originally. But this is the CS naval dirk, with a steep angle. Also fixed a viking sword edge, the original being unsharp and ugly (Jean's description of the details of ugly fit it well). Why do this to an edge when it doesn't even end up sharp? Now it is sharp.

Some pics? Try http://backyardbushman.com/?page_id=13 which makes a point of discussing secondary grinds (many, such as the relevant Wikipedia page, mainly describe only the primary grind).

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:

By the way, do the Australian use Kangaroos instead of Easter Bunnies to deliver Easter eggs?


There is the Easter Bilby, but it's still largely marketing rather than widespread tradition.

Personally, I wouldn't trust small egg-shaped objects left by small mammals, even if - or especially if - they're chocolate coloured.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2010 10:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
Thanks Jean,

Could you provide an illustration for neophytes like me to look at. This has always been a shortcoming on my part and guess I need to address it if I am to continue to play with swords.


Happy Easter and God Bless

Harry


Well Timo sort of explained it well, a pic of a knife can illustrate what a secondary bevel forming the actual edge looks like: The Cold Steel knife I chose has a dark finish and a bright secondary bevel that is easy to see. With a sword it would be the same but obviously a longer blade.

http://www.coldsteel.com/reconscout.html

When you look at an Albion there may be a secondary edge but it is blended/rounded so well that it doesn't stand out.
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...photos.htm

In fact the secondary bevel is very hard to see at all in these pics.

In a true zero edge you would have a flat bevel meeting at the edge like two sides of a triangle without any curving near the edge i.e. two strait lines meeting: This can be very sharp but more fragile than an apple seed edge.

With most/many Japanese Katanas the flats are actually subtlety convex rather than perfectly flat, although at a glance they do look flat.

Anyway, a bad secondary bevel is one done with little skill that butchers the edges, are sloppy and rough and if really badly done on the wrong type of grinder ( rotating stone wheel rather than a belt grinder ) completely ruin the look of a blade .

Oh, and someone not skilled can also easily overhead the edges ruining the temper.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Apr, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jean,

Thanks for the help but it was hard to see with the Albion although I do have a Reeve. The Espada (that is a BIG knife, a really big knife. I almost bought one for its size but didn't realize just how big it was and am glad I didn't for that reason) looks like it is showing a bevel.

Regards,

Harry

To Study The Edge of History
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