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Ben P.




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PostPosted: Mon 29 Mar, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Hungarian Gendarmes. Help!         Reply with quote

The title says all, I need to know everything there is to know about Hungarian Gendarmes, their history, rise, high point, decline, armament, tactics, gear, horses, ranks and organization, battles etc. And anything else relevant to the subject, this is urgent I need the info as quickly as possible, it needs to be detailed in depth and informative.

I also need page and pargraph numbers, links images, etc.

-Thanks

EDIT: It also needs to be english or at least have an english language option


Last edited by Ben P. on Tue 30 Mar, 2010 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Henrik Zoltan Toth




Location: Hungary
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello

Sadly just in hungarian, but it contains everything you're searching for:

http://www.rubicon.hu/megrendelheto/termek_ci...alom/1/1/0


Zoltán
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Henrik Zoltan Toth




Location: Hungary
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hahaaa:

http://www.csendor.com/

Zoltán
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Ben P.




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No offense meant but trolling isn't helpful or funny
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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i don`t think this was trolling. (and "hahaa" surely meant triumphant)

fact is, if you ask anyone here in austria, what a "gendarm" is, he will tell you a police-officer. and indeed, austrian law-enforcement was divided into police (paid by individual cities) and gendarmerie (guarding rural areas and descending from some wing of k.k army) until 2005.
probably it was quite similar in hungary, maybe due to our common history.

however, from your reaction i guess, you wanted to hear about armoured gens `d armes of earlier times, but thats not mr. toth`s fault.

mfg
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Vincent Le Chevalier




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gottfried P. Doerler wrote:
fact is, if you ask anyone here in austria, what a "gendarm" is, he will tell you a police-officer. and indeed, austrian law-enforcement was divided into police (paid by individual cities) and gendarmerie (guarding rural areas and descending from some wing of k.k army) until 2005.
probably it was quite similar in hungary, maybe due to our common history.

Actually it's also still the same in France...

It would be informative to have an idea of why all this information is needed, the need so urgent and the subject so specific.
I don't think there are so many specialists of that topic roaming the forums...
EDIT: Oh, so a section about hungarian gendarmes is being created on Wikipedia. Right in the middle of a page essentially dedicated to French army... This whole thing is looking quite confusing...

Regards,

--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Samuel Bena




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 10 Dec 2007

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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you by "Gendarmes" mean traditional medieval-renaissance men-at-arms Ben , than check this http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/warso/ . Though it only covers Battle of Mohacs (1526) , which is also pretty much the last battle in which the bulk of Hungarian men-at-arms participated (the late "Banderia";majority of them were slain there by the Ottomans ), it contains some valuable bits of info + its in English Happy. As a side note, Transylvanian( hung. Erdély) Men at arms must have existed a couple of years later after 1526 , since Zapolya didn't arrive with his cavalry. One way or the other the remaining cavalrymen transformed into heavy hussars, that were later brought into Poland by Stefan Bathory (Transylvanians ended up as semi-vassals to the Porte;the heavier hussars used a breed of western-eastern horse, short Turkish style stirrups , but retained the high knightly saddle).
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Boris R.





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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gottfried P. Doerler wrote:
i don`t think this was trolling. (and "hahaa" surely meant triumphant)

fact is, if you ask anyone here in austria, what a "gendarm" is, he will tell you a police-officer. and indeed, austrian law-enforcement was divided into police (paid by individual cities) and gendarmerie (guarding rural areas and descending from some wing of k.k army) until 2005.
probably it was quite similar in hungary, maybe due to our common history.

however, from your reaction i guess, you wanted to hear about armoured gens `d armes of earlier times, but thats not mr. toth`s fault.

mfg


Verzeih ihm , denn er ist nur ein Amerikaner.

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris R. wrote:


Verzeih ihm , denn er ist nur ein Amerikaner.


First, please limit your posts to the English language, per our rules.

Second, this translates to "forgive it, because he is only an American" which I find offensive and demeaning. Hopefully I've translated this incorrectly...

Happy

ChadA

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Ben P.




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nope Chad you translated it correctly.


@ Boris

Sir, I did nothing to elict your racist and insulting comment and I would thank you to refrain from that, and you should also be aware that the mods come down on people who continue with that sort of behavior like the fist of God.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben P. wrote:
Nope Chad you translated it correctly.


@ Boris

Sir, I did nothing to elict your racist and insulting comment and I would thank you to refrain from that, and you should also be aware that the mods come down on people who continue with that sort of behavior like the fist of God.


Ben,
We need no help doing our job. Leave this to us.

Back to the thread.

Happy

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Ben P.




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Ben P. wrote:
Nope Chad you translated it correctly.


@ Boris

Sir, I did nothing to elict your racist and insulting comment and I would thank you to refrain from that, and you should also be aware that the mods come down on people who continue with that sort of behavior like the fist of God.


Ben,
We need no help doing our job. Leave this to us.

Back to the thread.


My apologies sir, it was never my intention to do your job for you.

First of all I would like to apologize to everyone for starting this whole mess.

Mr Toth, thanks very much for your reply. I’m sorry, I should have been more clear. What I’m really after is information on 16th century Hungarian men-at-arms.
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Maurizio D'Angelo




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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe that Boris has written in a language not his. I think he meant: that is unknown to American culture. Often, it may happen that non-native language speaking, there may be misunderstandings.
When the first time in this forum, someone said to me, just my two cents, I had exchanged this expression, translating it into Italian, with: a person who has little value
Now, I use this expression too.
I do not think the term American can have a racist meaning, at least it's far from my culture.
Just my two cents. Eek! Laughing Out Loud Razz

Ciao
Maurizio
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Boris R.





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PostPosted: Tue 30 Mar, 2010 10:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

wow i've been proclaimed a racist, and for a first time in my life WTF?!
okay the need to apologise clearly falls on my shoulders, what i meant was: that the term itself, Gendarmerie, or Zhandari, is a well known one throughout whole of europe today. it is often synonimous with militias, police and sometimes with political brutality, but from an english viewpoint i guess it means simply french policeman to them, and from american maybe not event that but firstly calls up to mind a "romanticized" picture of a medieval cuirassier.
so i am sorry fellow forumites,i t was not my intent to insult or offend anyone

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
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Henrik Zoltan Toth




Location: Hungary
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello

"(and "hahaa" surely meant triumphant) "

Correct:-)

I'll post some pics from the "The army of the Transylwanian Principality"
(Az Erdélyi fejedelemség hadserege) on next weekend. Samuel, I'll continue the other thread too.
Pics from Győző Somogyi (naiv painter; he thinks, he could paint Happy )

Zoltán
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2010 10:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In French if we break down the word GENS meaning people, plurial ( men only in period ) D'ARMES meaning weapons/arms
so GENDARMES would mean people under arms or armed people basically also meaning in armour in the original definition.

GENDARMES could also be considered the equivalent of MEN-AT-ARMS in ENGLISH with the same period meaning of heavily armoured cavalry/knights.

Literal translations by translation programs can be useful but often mistranslate the intent in cultural usage from one language to the next: I hope that anyone who has taken offence here has already realized that no offence was meant by anyone.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Wed 31 Mar, 2010 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ben P.




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PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm. . . Feeling pretty moronic right.

I really can't tell you guys how sorry I am.
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Norbert Keller




Location: Hungary
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2010 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi there,

if you say gendarme (the primary meaning in Hungarian is "csendőr"), every Hungarian will think about the csendőr of the first half of the XX. century, between the two world wars. They were part of the army when need, but mostly served in the country, helping the work of the police. I remember, when my grandparents said the word "csendőr" with such high respect, and honor, what I hear rarely...

Unfortunately they were dishonored, stigmatized, and the ones who hadn't left abroad, were mostly imprisoned or executed during the socialism period, and this point of view sadly still lives in many people.
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János Sibinger




Location: Hungary/France
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greetings!
The Gendarmes's primary meaning recently is the half-militarized rural, police-like organization. They were dismissed after the second wrold war, becouse they aided in the deportation of the Israelite inhabitants of the country.
Before the end of the second world war they were known becouse of their strictness, their precision.
Every Gendarme (If I wrote it correctly) had his own territory. They had a meeting time and point with the neighbour one, where they exchanged information, discussed what they found to be important. There are lot of stories about them, (and about their failures) but I don't think so that these old tales would be appropriate here. The topic of the gendarmes sometimes still divides the Hungarians. That's all, what I can tell about them, I mainly heard this from my parents and grandparents.
But as I saw you are rather interested in the fighting units of Hungary in the XVI. st century!
If so, please, tell us a bit more about the special units that you are interested in!
One type of soldiers... Or semi soldiers that might be interesting from your point of wiev are Hajdúk. (One : hajdú. More: hajdúk)
These people originally were stockmen, looking after neat. (Cows, etc. I hope this was the word for it!) After the great geographical discoveries, Western-European countries started to upgrade their industry, meanwhile Hungary tried to make money of agriculture. We have hearded animals, and neat was the main export good of the kingdom during the Turkish stay. These animals represented high value, so thus these ,,cowboys" gained right to use weapons for the protection of the herd and themselves. These stockmen, experienced in fighting were welcome in the war against the Turkish raiding and staying forces, during the 150 years of the ocuppation.
On the end of the XVI.st century, there were two types of hajdú-s. The royal hajdú, who received 2 forints per month, and served in the végvár-s (castles and fortifications wich were built for the defence of our borders) and the free hajdú-s, were given their own land to live on (and some further special rights, similar to the nobility's) on the very beginning od the XVII.nd century, by István Bocskay.

Please forgive me, for the mistakes I made!

John



 Attachment: 53.8 KB
Hajdu.jpg
A mounted hajdú
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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

*off topic mode on
Maurizio D'Angelo wrote:
translating it into Italian with: a person who has little value

hehe, that`s the problem with translating literally, its a special problem if translating from german to english, because these languages are so similar.
its very easy to start learning english for pupils here, sometimes its even enough to pronounce a sentence "english-like", example "this is my book - dies ist mein buch". trouble start when you`re getting more advanced and try to tell complicated matters. its very hard to speak good english for native german-speakers, cause we are always seduced to literall translation by the phonetic resemblance.
*off topic mode off

Vincent Le Chevalier wrote:
Actually it's also still the same in France...

ah yes, i remember, the unforgettable Luis de Funes being gendarm of saint tropez.
and according to one episode, where he has to undergo an exam, french modern gendarms also have this bipolar role between law enforcement and national defense.
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