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D Mercer




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 19 Jan 2010

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 2:35 am    Post subject: Can you identify this rusty old dagger?         Reply with quote

I'm hoping one of the knowledgeable folks on this forum will be able to give me some pointers on the likely origin of this curved dagger of about 15 inches in length which was found in a field about 60 years ago. The dagger has a curved blade of fairly uniform thickness about 10 inches in length. The blade seems to have been been sharp on both sides.

The handle is made from a similar metal to the blade but seems to have some faint colouring in places. The most striking thing about the handle is its relatively small size - it is too small for my average-sized hand and seems to be out of proportion with the blade.

The total weight is 400g.

I apologise if I am using incorrect terminology - I am a beginner at this.

I have attached some images below and would appreciate any ideas you may have. Thanks.



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-DM-
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Werner Stiegler





Joined: 27 Feb 2007

Posts: 122

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 3:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

An indian Chillanum Dagger.
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Jeff Kaisla




Location: Qualicum Beach, B.C., Canada
Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 110

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll agree with the above post, just looking around i found a few similar daggers. Here are some pics and page links.





http://www.goantiques.com/detail,century-indi...38545.html



http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_detail...ID=1318292
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D Mercer




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 19 Jan 2010

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Thank you         Reply with quote

Mr Stiegler and Mr Kaisia - Thank you for your speedy replies to my question. I have looked at the images of Chilanum daggers and I can see that this one does seem to be of the same type.

So you have answered my question, but also created a new one: how did this Indian dagger come to be buried in a farmer's field in South East England? You can see from its condition that it must have been buried for a long time before it was found in 1950. I guess that will remain a mystery.

Anyway - thank you again for your advice - it is much appreciated.

-DM-


Last edited by D Mercer on Tue 19 Jan, 2010 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
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myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grandfather served in India (like how many thousands of others?,) then retired to SE England. Grandsons love to play with his souvenirs. One day they venture out with the dagger and come back without it. Along comes the plow....

If you were to ask neighboring property owners you might find somebody with an Indian connection.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Jeff Kaisla




Location: Qualicum Beach, B.C., Canada
Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 110

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you         Reply with quote

D Mercer wrote:
how did this Indian dagger come to be buried in a farmer's field in South East England?


This is most likely one of the very questions that draws people into Archaeology, How, when, why? You are probably right, it may remain a mystery, but I think Mr. Flynts scenario is very plausible and most likely very close to the mark. The dagger may not be that old, lying in the ground in a wet climate will deteriorate a blade quite quickly I'd imagine. The first dagger I posted is a 20th century dagger and apart from the D guard, it looks very similar to yours. I personally would take it in to a museum or someone who specializes in Indian weaponry and artifacts. They might be able to give you some more detail on its origin and age, Im afraid I dont know much about them, save that i recognized the style from a book I have, and it doesn't go into much depth concerning them at all.

Good luck and glad i could help.
Jeff
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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

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Posts: 487

PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, the problem here is obviously that no one is attributing the dagger to the Great Mogul Invasion of Southern Britain in the 17th Century due to the invitation of the extreme-Royalist party in England. Not being satisfied with the political settlement of the Commonwealth and disturbed by the excesses of the Restoration and not wanting to see the crown settled on the head of a Roman Catholic, the extreme-Royalist settled on a "plague on both your houses" mentality. It was deemed politically expedient to invite the Shah to establish a throne in England based on a third religion that could provide equal treatment to the Protestant Independents, Presbyterians, Anglicians and Catholics...an enforced toleration, if you will. With the great Mogul fleet landing in SE England along the Thames estuary, SE England was the scene of many pitched battles until the Great Defeat of the Mogul army near Caterbury in 1687. Of course, the Plague had decimated the Shah's forces but the presence of a suddenly unified England was the ultimate catalyst for defeat. Even the Scots army was hailed a liberators with the cry of "Better the heatherns we know than the heathers we don't know" being the common battle-cry. Aye, it was a dark and bloody time setting up the continued catastrophe of a Germanic dynasty in GB for the next 300 years.

Your dagger is certainly a relic of one of those sudden, bloody engagements that has escaped the textbooks of modern historians.
Laughing Out Loud

"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Risto Rautiainen




Location: Kontiolahti, Finland
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jan, 2010 2:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just stumbled upon this link and it looks quite much the same as yours:

http://tinyurl.com/ygxgl35
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