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Shane Allee
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Location: South Bend, IN
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PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep, 2009 9:02 am    Post subject: Lisnacrogher Irish La Tene Sword         Reply with quote

This weekend I finished up the Irish La Tene sword that I had been working on recently. The blade and fittings are based on one of the Lisnacrogher swords and the hilt is inspired by the wooden sword found at Ballykilmurry. The Lisnacrogher find dates around the 3rd and 2nd century BCE. Mark at Ollin Sword Design made the blade for me, the fittings are bronze, and the wood is holly. If the sword is still around this winter and I have some down time I may try carving the holly with designs fitting to the Bann river scabbards which includes the Lisnacrogher scabbards.

20" Overall Length

14 1/2" Blade Length

1 3/4" Blade Width

Weight- 1 lbs. 3 oz





http://www.ironagearmoury.com/lisnacrogher.html

Shane
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Michael Eging




Location: Ashburn, VA
Joined: 24 Apr 2004

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PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep, 2009 9:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a really nice composition! I like the way it all came together and must admit this is one of the first La Tene swords to interest me. Really great work!
M. Eging
Hamilton, VA
www.silverhornechoes.com
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Stephen Curtin




PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep, 2009 1:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Shane, well done on a great looking sword. I seen this piece on your site ages ago and have been waiting to see the finished product. I'd love to add one of these to my collection some day.
Éirinn go Brách
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Allen Andrews




Location: Maine USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Reading list: 5 books

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PostPosted: Tue 22 Sep, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Michael, I am not generally a huge fan, but this sword is really striking. Well done.
" I would not snare even an orc with a falsehood. "

Faramir son of Denethor

Words to live by. (Yes, I know he's not a real person)
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Shane Allee
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Location: South Bend, IN
Joined: 29 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys,

Guess that I have had this blade for some time now that I think about it. Ended up putting a couple of other projects in front of it that took longer than I expected. Did work out nice that I had time to finish it while waiting on the falcata blades to be heat treated. Hope to get one other quick project done and then those should be back so I can finish them next.

Shane
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes a very nice piece with interesting shapes: The bronze fittings contrast nicely with the organic shape of the holly.

Carvings may well be nice but I would be ambivalent about overdoing it as the pure shapes are so nice !?

How much carving, how deep, how much of the surface carved in a percentage of the total surface ? Some nice carving often looks better when it is in contrast to areas left plain ......

It almost makes one wish that one could have both a plain version and a carved version as each has it's charms. Wink Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Danny Grigg




PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shane, awesome looking sword.

You mention the blade is based on the "Lisnacrogher swords", does this mean there is more than one Lisnacrogher sword?

Do you have some pics of the Lisnacrogher swords and perhaps some information to share about them?
I think someone posted a small pic of one of the Lisnacrogher swords awhile ago on this forum.

Do you have pics and information on the wooden "Ballykilmurry" sword?

Nathan Bell mentions the "Ballinderry sword" in his description of his "Irish Arms Irish Iron Age Short sword".
Do you have any pics and information about this sword as well?

http://www.myArmoury.com/nateb_dagg_ia_ironss.html?2

Sorry to pester you with all this....

Danny
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Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 5:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's the cutest sword I've ever seen.

It's probably not right to refer to a sword as "cute", but really, that's the only word that come to mind when I look at it.

The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Dan P




Location: Massachusetts, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks like the kind of thing you'd get if you asked Apple Computer to make a sword. Like... an iSword. Its the rounded shape and light colored wood that really does it. Very nice.
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Really nice work Shane!

I really like the shape as well as the bronze details. Then again, I am a fan of La Tene swords... Big Grin
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan P wrote:
It looks like the kind of thing you'd get if you asked Apple Computer to make a sword. Like... an iSword. Its the rounded shape and light colored wood that really does it. Very nice.


Very funny ROTFL. Cool

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Shane Allee
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Location: South Bend, IN
Joined: 29 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 2:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks again everyone.

Not sure why, but specifics on some of the lisnacrogher stuff is hard to nail down. There are anyway two swords. The first, which this sword is based upon is in very good condition with a blade that looks like it could still be used if it had the organic hilt still intact. The other sword that you frequently see is in very bad condition, mostly just the center of the blade and broken in many pieces. The hilt of it is in better shape then the blade and still has its bronze fittings. It has the same "U" shaped piece, but lacks the grip spacers. The bell guard is very similar, but one side has the file marks like I did, and the opposite side has cross-hatching file marks. The second sword also has a sheet bronze fitting that would have went over the upper part of the guard. So this second sword has some rather odd features. As far as scabbards go, I have heard that there could have been up to six total from Lisnacrogher. Three that are displayed in museums and are commonly depicted in writings, and the rest mostly just shown by their chapes. I'm not even sure how much remains were found of the scabbards beyond these chapes.

The wooden sword of Ballykilmurry is a bit of a mystery. So far as I know they haven't really been able to date it other than just sometime in the La Tene. They also can't really come up with a use for it. The sword is in rather good shape, and has this odd protrusion of wood one one side of the blade about 2/3 of the way down. Most logical uses for the sword would find it in the way and cumbersome.

I would have to look to see how much information I even have on the Ballinderry sword. I know that it is one of the longer of the double fullered Irish swords. It also has a rather interesting bronze guard that has some interesting designs sculpted into it.

Danny, if you email me or send me of PM with an email address that I can send you pictures I will of some of the stuff I have saved.



Shane
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Shane Allee
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Location: South Bend, IN
Joined: 29 Aug 2003

Posts: 506

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not totally sure what I would end up doing in the way of carving. We really don't have a lot to go on as far as how they typically would have carved organic items. We see how they decorated metal, but that might not always translate over well into something like wood. Another problem is making the jump from 2d to 3d in terms of applying a design. Some of the scabbard and mirror designs are very nice, but when you go to trying to apply them and not just laying out in flat areas here and there things get interesting. Really it is hard, but not impossible to recreate a design on the original item it was done on. When one tries applying known designs onto something else is when things most often get screwy. I see it all the time with people trying to decorate things for their La Tene period living history items and rarely does it not look off. Part of it is the fact that there are so many variations in designs from different places, times, and object styles. Even knowing the styles as best as one can, there still seems something about their mindset that is very hard to capture today.

Granted, then there is the fact that even if we could tap into it and do it in the way they would have, the majority of us would think it looked awful. *G*

Shane
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Stephen Curtin




PostPosted: Sat 26 Sep, 2009 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Yes a very nice piece with interesting shapes: The bronze fittings contrast nicely with the organic shape of the holly.

Carvings may well be nice but I would be ambivalent about overdoing it as the pure shapes are so nice !?

How much carving, how deep, how much of the surface carved in a percentage of the total surface ? Some nice carving often looks better when it is in contrast to areas left plain ......

It almost makes one wish that one could have both a plain version and a carved version as each has it's charms. Wink Big Grin


Couldnt agree with you more Jean.

Éirinn go Brách
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