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Andrew Goodman




Location: Washoe Valley, Nevada
Joined: 05 May 2005
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Posts: 20

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reiver stuff?         Reply with quote

Anyone have any idea where I could get a scottish style burgonet and a jack o' plate for a display I'm putting together in my house? Also I know anything would go for a reiver but what type of dagger (ballock/rondel) or dirk would be appropriate? Thank you in advance..



Andy

Andy

-------------
Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh.

He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

--Scots Gaelic proverb
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JG Elmslie
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Location: Scotland
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

cant help on the burgeonet, I'm afraid...

I'd love do a padded jack based off the one in the scottish national museum, just up the road for me... I've been doing my best to resist making a replica of that one for a few years now, on grounds that I want it, but would be of limited use for me... it keeps going "make me!" every time I visit, and I've been itching to misuse the restoration notes I got hold of last year. However, as that'd be a bit too commercial, I'll bite my lip and merely dream. Happy


but for the dagger, I can help you, and say it's more likely to be a dudgeon dagger at that point in time. Ballock knives were out of fashion by about half a century by then, and rondels a lot more still....

and a pic of the jack in the scottish national museum, for you to "ooh" at, if you're anything like me...



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Gabriele Becattini





Joined: 21 Aug 2007

Posts: 715

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Andrew,

for a reiver kit ballock or quillon dagger with sidering are boh ok, probably the most distinctive form of "reiver" dagger was the one with a basket guard, check out an example at darkwood armoury website, also if you look into the user album section, thomas mcdonald had a nice example made by armour class of scotland.
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Thom R.




Location: Tucson
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Reading list: 30 books

Posts: 630

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allan Senefelder makes a very nice 16th c burgeonette with four lame neck and fully articulated visor

http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=60

can't go wrong with MT stuff! tr
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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

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Posts: 487

PostPosted: Sun 20 Sep, 2009 12:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Google on "Scottish Burgonet." There is a version made in India that is not too bad, in fact. I bought one for display on my "Reiver" wall and it looks very nice. It's not functional but the gauge of iron is about right and it has no welds to detract like many of the Morion and Morion/Cabasset repros do. I also had Darkwood Armory make a couple of daggers. One had a half basket hilt visually reminiscent of an early "English" type basket hilt. They did a teriffic job and I highly recommend them. I also just found a website in Argintina(!) where a very nice (although pricy) relpica of a German wheellock pistol is offered. Loyalist Arms in Nova Scotia just announced delivery of wheellock pistols at a much more reasonale rate. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck!
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Gabriele Becattini





Joined: 21 Aug 2007

Posts: 715

PostPosted: Sun 20 Sep, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

could you post some pics of your darkwood daggers? i'd love to see it.
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Mark Hanna





Joined: 11 Sep 2008

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is close to a dungeon dagger style. You may be able to do some work on the handle to get it even better. And of coarse make a new scabbard. Might be worth it to get a blade and do your own.


http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~KRSB...Dagger.htm
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Andrew Goodman




Location: Washoe Valley, Nevada
Joined: 05 May 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 3:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I bought an Armour Class early basket hilt with a del tin blade and a Scottish style burgonet of members of this site.. I have a darkwood armory reiver dagger on order with a live blade and blued basket.. Thanks everyone


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Andy

-------------
Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh.

He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

--Scots Gaelic proverb
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Andrew Goodman




Location: Washoe Valley, Nevada
Joined: 05 May 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anyone have any luck dismounting an armour class? Was thinking of japaning or bluing the basket. What do you guys think?
Andy

-------------
Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh.

He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

--Scots Gaelic proverb
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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

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Posts: 487

PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Andy, I've had the best luck hot browning a basket. Authetic japanning is tough to do and blueing is spotty at best unless your're really good at it. A company called Track of the Wolf (www.trackofthewolf.com) sells a Birchwood "Plum Brown" hot browning solution that I have had very good luck with. It;s only $5 USD a bottle of so and one bottle will do two hilts. I used a propane hand torch and heated sections as I went. the metal doesn't have to get red hot or anything like that. The instructions even say that you can heat it in an oven but you can only imagine the tirade my red-headed wife produced with that suggestion!! Frankly, the torch is better because you can heat only what you are working with at the time and cover the hilt section by section.

Once I had the part I was working on hot, I used a wool dauber like you would use to dye leather and applied the solution. You can tell if everything is going well by the "sizzle" you get when the solution hits the metal. The metal will turn brown instantly. Make sure there is absolutely no oil on the metal at all. Once I had cleaned the hilt, I used an old screwdriver to hold the hilt through the tang opening at the base of the hilt and clamped the handle of the screwdriver in a vise. Gives you both hands free...one to heat and one to daub.

Repeat heating and putting on solution until you are satisfied with the color, run it under hot soapy water to get any extra chemical off the metal and then very lightly use #0000 steel wool to lightly burnish it. I think one of the real tricks is to work in some light oil on the browning as it seems to give it a real luster and deep finish.

I think you will be very please with the results.

"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Jim Mearkle




Location: Colonie, NY
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
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Posts: 113

PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Andrew Goodman wrote:
Anyone have any luck dismounting an armour class? Was thinking of japaning or bluing the basket. What do you guys think?


I've only got the pommel off mine (17th century hanger). I couldn't get the grip off and decided not to force it. I saw someone say the other day that they glue their grips. You may be looking at replacing the grip to get the basket off.

Jim
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Andrew Goodman




Location: Washoe Valley, Nevada
Joined: 05 May 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

GG Osborne,

Thank you. I can't decide on browning or bluing.. Darkwood Armory will heat blue the basket for me for about $35 to match the reiver dagger.. What to do, what to do?



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Andy

-------------
Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh.

He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

--Scots Gaelic proverb
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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 487

PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Er, Andy... you wanted a picture of the two daggers Darkwood made for me, well, you got 'em. Those are the two daggers I specified and Scott made up for me, so enjoy. as far as grips beinbg glued, just use the torch to grmtly heat up the area of the blade before the grip. Not enouh to affect the temper but melt the glue. Works like a charm. As far as blueing vs browning, I'm just partial to the browning as only hot salts blueing gives a nice coating and I don't have the equipment.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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GG Osborne





Joined: 21 Mar 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 487

PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 9:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thought....send the basket to Scott and have him blue it to match the dagger hilt.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
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Andrew Goodman




Location: Washoe Valley, Nevada
Joined: 05 May 2005
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu 15 Oct, 2009 4:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

GG Osborne,

Um these are yours? Scott emailed the pic to me when I asked about the possibility of a live blade.. I think I am going to send it to Scott to have it blued only problem is I'll probably have to send the whole sword (I can't dismount it)..

Andy

-------------
Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh.

He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

--Scots Gaelic proverb
View user's profile Send private message


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