Reiver stuff? -- myArmoury.com

Andrew Goodman · Posted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: Reiver stuff?

Anyone have any idea where I could get a scottish style burgonet and a jack o' plate for a display I'm putting together in my house? Also I know anything would go for a reiver but what type of dagger (ballock/rondel) or dirk would be appropriate? Thank you in advance..

Andy

JG Elmslie · Industry Professional

cant help on the burgeonet, I'm afraid...

I'd love do a padded jack based off the one in the scottish national museum, just up the road for me... I've been doing my best to resist making a replica of that one for a few years now, on grounds that I want it, but would be of limited use for me... it keeps going "make me!" every time I visit, and I've been itching to misuse the restoration notes I got hold of last year. However, as that'd be a bit too commercial, I'll bite my lip and merely dream. Happy

but for the dagger, I can help you, and say it's more likely to be a dudgeon dagger at that point in time. Ballock knives were out of fashion by about half a century by then, and rondels a lot more still....

and a pic of the jack in the scottish national museum, for you to "ooh" at, if you're anything like me...

Gabriele Becattini · Posted: Sat 19 Sep, 2009 3:58 am Post subject:

Andrew,

for a reiver kit ballock or quillon dagger with sidering are boh ok, probably the most distinctive form of "reiver" dagger was the one with a basket guard, check out an example at darkwood armoury website, also if you look into the user album section, thomas mcdonald had a nice example made by armour class of scotland.

Thom R. · Posted: Sat 19 Sep, 2009 11:21 am Post subject:

Allan Senefelder makes a very nice 16th c burgeonette with four lame neck and fully articulated visor

http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=60

can't go wrong with MT stuff! tr

GG Osborne · Posted: Sun 20 Sep, 2009 12:04 am Post subject:

Google on "Scottish Burgonet." There is a version made in India that is not too bad, in fact. I bought one for display on my "Reiver" wall and it looks very nice. It's not functional but the gauge of iron is about right and it has no welds to detract like many of the Morion and Morion/Cabasset repros do. I also had Darkwood Armory make a couple of daggers. One had a half basket hilt visually reminiscent of an early "English" type basket hilt. They did a teriffic job and I highly recommend them. I also just found a website in Argintina(!) where a very nice (although pricy) relpica of a German wheellock pistol is offered. Loyalist Arms in Nova Scotia just announced delivery of wheellock pistols at a much more reasonale rate. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck!

Gabriele Becattini · Posted: Sun 20 Sep, 2009 4:21 am Post subject:

could you post some pics of your darkwood daggers? i'd love to see it.

Mark Hanna · Posted: Mon 21 Sep, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject:

This is close to a dungeon dagger style. You may be able to do some work on the handle to get it even better. And of coarse make a new scabbard. Might be worth it to get a blade and do your own.

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~KRSB...Dagger.htm

Andrew Goodman · Posted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the replies. I bought an Armour Class early basket hilt with a del tin blade and a Scottish style burgonet of members of this site.. I have a darkwood armory reiver dagger on order with a live blade and blued basket.. Thanks everyone

Andrew Goodman · Posted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject:

Anyone have any luck dismounting an armour class? Was thinking of japaning or bluing the basket. What do you guys think?

GG Osborne · Posted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject:

Andy, I've had the best luck hot browning a basket. Authetic japanning is tough to do and blueing is spotty at best unless your're really good at it. A company called Track of the Wolf (www.trackofthewolf.com) sells a Birchwood "Plum Brown" hot browning solution that I have had very good luck with. It;s only $5 USD a bottle of so and one bottle will do two hilts. I used a propane hand torch and heated sections as I went. the metal doesn't have to get red hot or anything like that. The instructions even say that you can heat it in an oven but you can only imagine the tirade my red-headed wife produced with that suggestion!! Frankly, the torch is better because you can heat only what you are working with at the time and cover the hilt section by section.

Once I had the part I was working on hot, I used a wool dauber like you would use to dye leather and applied the solution. You can tell if everything is going well by the "sizzle" you get when the solution hits the metal. The metal will turn brown instantly. Make sure there is absolutely no oil on the metal at all. Once I had cleaned the hilt, I used an old screwdriver to hold the hilt through the tang opening at the base of the hilt and clamped the handle of the screwdriver in a vise. Gives you both hands free...one to heat and one to daub.

Repeat heating and putting on solution until you are satisfied with the color, run it under hot soapy water to get any extra chemical off the metal and then very lightly use #0000 steel wool to lightly burnish it. I think one of the real tricks is to work in some light oil on the browning as it seems to give it a real luster and deep finish.

I think you will be very please with the results.

Jim Mearkle · Posted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject:

Andrew Goodman · Posted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject:

GG Osborne,

Thank you. I can't decide on browning or bluing.. Darkwood Armory will heat blue the basket for me for about $35 to match the reiver dagger.. What to do, what to do?

GG Osborne · Posted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject:

Er, Andy... you wanted a picture of the two daggers Darkwood made for me, well, you got 'em. Those are the two daggers I specified and Scott made up for me, so enjoy. as far as grips beinbg glued, just use the torch to grmtly heat up the area of the blade before the grip. Not enouh to affect the temper but melt the glue. Works like a charm. As far as blueing vs browning, I'm just partial to the browning as only hot salts blueing gives a nice coating and I don't have the equipment.

GG Osborne · Posted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject:

Thought....send the basket to Scott and have him blue it to match the dagger hilt.

Andrew Goodman · Posted: Thu 15 Oct, 2009 4:46 am Post subject:

GG Osborne,

Um these are yours? Scott emailed the pic to me when I asked about the possibility of a live blade.. I think I am going to send it to Scott to have it blued only problem is I'll probably have to send the whole sword (I can't dismount it)..