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Krist Martens




Location: Belgium, Bruges
Joined: 01 Jan 2008

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 5:38 am    Post subject: Leather & Dye advice         Reply with quote

Hello,

As many of you did before, I also tried to rewrap my old training sword.

I used a chamois leather,
Eco flo dye, finisher & leathercement.
Afterwards I aplied beeswax to finish the hilt.

The result is OK for a first attempt, but I ran into a few problems that some of you me be able to help me before trying a second attempt.

I dyed my leather before glueing it to the hilt. I didn't use the fnisher and that's maybe a first error.
Because it seemed like the cement made the dye dissolve from the leather. This result in an uneven spread of the colour

A second error, I used to much cement, less is better. The cement was squished out.

Is it better to dye the leather, use finisher and apply beeswax before glueing to the hilt. Or is the combination of my leather with the dye a problem. The vendor said it would only work with vegetable tanned leather. I have no idea how my leather is tanned.

Thanks for any info/help

Regards
Krist
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 6:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I use chamois and haven't had this problem, so the problem might be your dye. Is it alcohol or oil-based? The other possibility is that your glue is not compatible with the dye. I use ordinary wood glue. My method is to cut the wrap to size, dampen it, dye it with Feibing's dye, then apply it to the glue-covered grip core and bind with cord. Slight seepage of glue doesn't bother me and is actually desirable because it lets me know that all surfaces under the leather are thoroughly covered. The seepage usually occurs at the end of the grip opposite from the starting point of my cord overwrap. The cord squeezes it out.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Ron Reuter




Location: Southern Indiana
Joined: 04 Oct 2007

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like wrapping mine first then apply all of the finishes.. but this is how I pretty much have always done my leather.. not sure if it is correct, but it does seem to work.

eco flo is a water based stain, so the glue might have disolved it a bit..

you don't need a lot of glue... clean any excess glue that leaks out with water/sponge so it doesn't block the dye.

Here is my website showing how I have done some grips...

http://www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_grip_2.asp


Good luck

Ron
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Krist Martens




Location: Belgium, Bruges
Joined: 01 Jan 2008

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Sean,

This is the dye I used http://www.tandyleatherfactory.co.uk/pc-83982...e-4oz.aspx it's water based.

I used the cement/glue from the same brand.

I didn't ordered Feibing's dye because there was an substantially extra shipping cost because it's considered a hazardous good.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 7:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I notice that the site says "do not use on suede." The chamois I use isn't as rough as suede but might present a problem to the Eco-Flo dye. I buy my Feibing's dye from a local leather shop, so I don't know if there's a hazardous materials charge for shipping in the U.S.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I made this grip as described above. You can't tell much but you can at least see the smoothness of finish and uniformity of color.


 Attachment: 91.21 KB
download.gif


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Ron Reuter




Location: Southern Indiana
Joined: 04 Oct 2007

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PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 8:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean,

Your work is always SO neat, and always turns out consistent, I am impressed!

Ron
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ron Reuter wrote:
Sean,

Your work is always SO neat, and always turns out consistent, I am impressed!

Ron


Thanks! I should point out that the chappe is much thicker veg tanned top grain leather. You can see the thickness of the grip wrap in the little half-moon extension at the top of the chappe (that bit gets stitched to the chappe and then the sides of the chappe get stitched up).

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Krist Martens




Location: Belgium, Bruges
Joined: 01 Jan 2008

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a great tutorial Ron, I'll follow your steps on my next wrap. I didn't wet my chamois and it shrinked a lot after dyeing, so much it barely fit the hilt. Your method can prevent this.

Sean,
After reading your posts and Ron's tutorial, I'm beginning to think it's the dye - chamois combination. I'm going to look for feiblings dye. strangely it's hard to find in europe.

both of your work is fantastic, hopefully my second attempt will be better.

I included a pic of my grip. I intentionally used an uneven cord for the cordwrap.



 Attachment: 66.94 KB
wrap2.jpg

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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hi all
I take advantage of this topic not to open another of it. I think that however my questions are pertinent.
I know that the wood has to preferably be an elastic wood. Some suggestion?
I know that the wood is treated with flax oil. is this correct? Why? Can the flax oil on the wood interfere with the glue Epoxy used for attaching the wood on the steel? Can the flax oil on the wood interfere with the glue used for attaching the skin?
The skin with wax of bees or with normal wax is treated for shoes. Is The wax of bees best?
Thanks for your suggestions.
Maurizio
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would advise against using any oil or wax on the wooden core of the grip if it's going to be wrapped. Ideally, the drier the wood the better. That's why well seasoned or kiln-dried wood (especially ash) is preferred. If the wood is not perfectly dry it will shrink as it dries, potentially leading to loose hilt components. It would also be difficult for glue to adhere to a waxed or oiled surface. I wax only the outside surface of the finished grip. Ash is hard to find so I use poplar--readily available, easily shaped, inexpensive and also historically appropriate.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Aug, 2009 8:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess you'd need some kind of epoxy for that application. As for pink--try diluting Fiebing's red and immersing the leather. The color of the leather will probably prevent you from getting a very light pink...but experiment with scraps.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Aug, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I cleaned the spam out of this topic. It sort of has ruined the flow of the conversation and unfortunately cost some valuable info. Those who posted here that didn't spam can feel free to continue the conversation or re-post the non-spam stuff.
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Josh MacNeil




Location: Massachusetts, USA
Joined: 23 Jul 2008

Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu 03 Sep, 2009 7:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I figured I'd just post this here rather than start a new thread. I'm going to be attempting my first grip rewrapping using chamois and shoe polish for the dye. I have couple of questions before I proceed. What would be good to use for a finisher? If I use beeswax, how do I apply it? Also, could I use the polishing stuff that you can find in a shoe department?
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Nathan Gilleland





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Thu 03 Sep, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I found that a fabric dye used on the chamois works pretty well rather than shoe polish or actual leather dye, (which Ihave heard "sweats" on chamois). The fabric dye that I used was Rit 'scarlet' fabric dye. Just follow the directions on the case and it works great! I haven't had any "sweating" from the leather, and I handled the finished piece for several hours straight. To finish, I used mink oil which I believe is also sold near the shoe polish. It gave a really nice, "used" leather look the piece.

Hope that helps!

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