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How interested are you in Italian arms and armour items?
My absolute favorite!
5%
 5%  [ 9 ]
Very interested
40%
 40%  [ 70 ]
Moderately interested
34%
 34%  [ 60 ]
Only vaguely interested
15%
 15%  [ 26 ]
I have no interest in Italian arms and armour
4%
 4%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 172

Author Message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 2:31 am    Post subject: Apr 13: myArmoury.com news and updates         Reply with quote

Today's update:


A Giveaway with an Italian Flair!

A new contest!


Albion Doge Sword

A hands-on review by Bill Grandy


Windlass Steelcrafts Classic Cinquedea

A hands-on review by Bill Grandy


E.B. Erickson Schiavona

Added to Nathan's collection


Phoenix Metal Creations Type 1 Schiavona

Added to Nathan's collection


Wallpaper: Nathan's Collection Apr '09

Created by Nathan Robinson

As always, you can see our Complete History of Updates listed right from our home page.
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Gabriele Becattini





Joined: 21 Aug 2007

Posts: 710

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 6:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan,

the type 1 schiavona is amazing, of course the E.B.E's one is amazing too but the type 1 is absolutely

my favourite kind of schiavona hilt.

just a little question, if i remenber well i have read in an old topic that phoenix metal creations was no longer in activity,

i'm right or i have made a mistake?

cheers

Gabriele
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,163

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 6:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good to see some more reviews and I can agree with Bill about the Doge's handling ( Although he is more qualified than me to give an opinion but it seems to confirm my impressions ).

With the finger ring I also wonder about how useful it is or what is the best way to grip the sword if one uses the finger ring ?

Does one hold with the upper guard close to the web of the hand " choking up " on it with the fore finger fully engaged or does one hold with the hand a little farther from the guard with only the tip of the index finger in contact with the finger ring ?

If choking up on the guard I can see the hand being in danger of being cut as the " meat " of one's hand bulges around the upper guard and, at least with the longsword, my instructor recommends leaving a small amount of distance between the hand and the guard as the guard protect the hand better this way.

One thought is that the finger ring is normally considered there to protect the finger ........ BUT, there is a small gap where a blade sliding down one's blade might slip by and still cut the finger !

I wonder if this finger ring or hook might not also be there to trap the opponents blade and possibly we mistakenly interpret it as a finger ring as later swords and sword techniques do use finger rings ?

The ring does give some protection to the finger but the side of the finger is still dangerously exposed to harm on the side of the finger ?

This problem being fixed with later much more complex guards and in the late 15th or early 16th century the use of gauntlets probably gave the finger adequate protection and the finger ring would or could be more for a handling advantage rather than just to protect the finger ?

I could be completely wrong about the above, but I thought I would just put the " theory " out there for discussion.

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Chris Arrington





Joined: 06 Apr 2007

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan,

Any thoughts of possibly creating a high resolution wallpaper that includes all (or a number) of your complex hilted swords?
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Arrington wrote:
Any thoughts of possibly creating a high resolution wallpaper that includes all (or a number) of your complex hilted swords?


I intend to put together more things like this. Unfortunately, I lost a large hard drive full of images related to arms and armour last year. I'm going to have to send it to a data recovery specialist and shell out the cash for those types of services. It's a physical crash so there's not much I can do about it, myself. There's so much good stuff on that hard drive and so very little overlap with my backup.

I use this as my own desktop right now: Wallpaper of some of my my collection.


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Nathan Robinson
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myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriele Becattini wrote:
just a little question, if i remenber well i have read in an old topic that phoenix metal creations was no longer in activity,


That's right. Erik Stevenson of Phoenix Metal Creations is no longer doing this kind of work.

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Chris Arrington





Joined: 06 Apr 2007

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Nathan ! Installed as my desktop.

I have an extreme case of sword lust right now. Wink
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 3,826

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't recall seeing that Type 1 Erik Stevenson schiavona before. Did you just acquire it, or have you had it for awhile? It is another fine example of Erik's work. Interesting how he attached the knuckle-bow to the pommel.

From its overall cast, I guess you could call it the Dark Schiavona.
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Nathan Robinson
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myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
I don't recall seeing that Type 1 Erik Stevenson schiavona before. Did you just acquire it, or have you had it for awhile? It is another fine example of Erik's work. Interesting how he attached the knuckle-bow to the pommel


I've had it for a few years. I've posted it in a couple topics before but it took this long to get it online officially (partially due to the above mention of a lost hard drive full of images)

My collection of schiavone
Hey look, a bunch of swords

The "staple" used to attach the knuckle-bow to the pommel is a common feature found on many antique schiavone. Just as common is the loss of the "staple" on some antiques, leaving just the hole in the pommel as a tell-tale sign that it once was there.

Examples showing pommels that have the "staple" or the hole in the pommel for a missing one:

http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/5572.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/5411.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/346.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/338.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/298.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/12047.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/339.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4599.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/7509.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/7510.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/13815.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4147.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4149.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4150.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/4151.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/345.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/302.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/304.html



 Attachment: 38.41 KB
schiavona_pommel_staple.jpg
Image showing pommel and attaching "staple" as found on some schiavone

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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




Location: Michigan, USA
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 854

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice pictures of very interesting swords ... with lots o' activity going on in the
intricate hilt structures. I've a growing curiosity in the schiavona because it
strikes me as somewhat unique and individualistic in nature ...

There's that " common " look if you will, but striking differences. A few questions
for you, sir :

1. Do blade styles differ ? that is, the length, width, with fuller/s or without, heavier
lighter ?

2. I noted the " Dark Schiavona " has a thumb-ring; is it comfortably located for the
hand ? when designing the idea, were you careful to discuss the ring's position or
did you have a historical picture to go by ?

3. Is the thumb-ring common to this type of sword ?

4. Does the schiavona have a pedigree ? that is, did it evolve from the influence
of another type sword ?

5. Are you going to tell me to use the search-engine because you don't have time
for my questions ? B-)
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz wrote:
1. Do blade styles differ ? that is, the length, width, with fuller/s or without, heavier
lighter ?

2. I noted the " Dark Schiavona " has a thumb-ring; is it comfortably located for the
hand ? when designing the idea, were you careful to discuss the ring's position or
did you have a historical picture to go by ?

3. Is the thumb-ring common to this type of sword ?

4. Does the schiavona have a pedigree ? that is, did it evolve from the influence
of another type sword ?

5. Are you going to tell me to use the search-engine because you don't have time
for my questions ? B-)



Let me refer you to my spotlight article that answers most of your questions:


Spotlight: The Schiavona

An article by Nathan Robinson

It's linked in both collection pages and throughout this topic. No search engine necessary Happy

1) There's a ton of variety to blade styles. See the schiavona article and the schiavona photo album

2) No, I don't micro-manage custom makers and tell them specific things like that. For me, part of picking a custom maker is choosing one that knows more about swords than I do so that he can do his job well. We used historical photos as inspiration, as indicated in the collection page. Besides, if a thumb-ring is properly shaped, the position really isn't that important as long as it's in the general area of the back of the hilt (unless it's completely screwed up)

3) Yes, it is. Read my article

4) There are many things that lead to the schiavona's development. Read my article

5) I was tempted Big Grin

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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 3,826

PostPosted: Mon 13 Apr, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:


The "staple" used to attach the knuckle-bow to the pommel is a common feature found on many antique schiavone. Just as common is the loss of the "staple" on some antiques, leaving just the hole in the pommel as a tell-tale sign that it once was there.


Most modern reproductions, especially the lower end ones, leave out the staple. I wonder why? maybe one more expensive thing to do, don't want to drill a hole in the pommel --

The curled end of the knuckle-bow certainly invites that attachment to the pommel. It must stabilize the hilt.
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Nathan Robinson
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myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Tue 14 Apr, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Arrington wrote:
Any thoughts of possibly creating a high resolution wallpaper that includes all (or a number) of your complex hilted swords?


Since you asked, I took a new photo this evening. It's not great, in terms of quality, but gives a sense of scale:

Check it out in this post

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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Tue 14 Apr, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Arrington wrote:
Thanks Nathan ! Installed as my desktop.


Thanks for the encouragement, Chris.

I got inspired and made an actual desktop wallpaper:


Wallpaper: Nathan's Collection Apr '09

Created by Nathan Robinson

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Karl Knisley




PostPosted: Tue 14 Apr, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello
Here`s a hard question:-) Which one is your favorite?
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Nathan Robinson
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myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Karl Knisley wrote:
Here`s a hard question:-) Which one is your favorite?


Man, oh man, that is a hard question. I've never been real good at picking favorites or even "top lists". Don't get me started on choosing my top 5 movies... my head starts to explode.

I suppose it's a moving target -- often leaning towards the newer things. I hope this doesn't sound fickle, but I guess it's just natural.

I'll cop out and say that up there near the top of the list is the EBE landsknecht katzbalger sword: it's one of the most amazingly detailed modern swords I've seen with excellent proportions and even better detail. It happens to be most of the newest things I've seen, too, so that makes it easy to pick that one. On top of that, I've wanted a "later period" katzbalger for about 20 years so when I finally got one like this, I was super excited. Frankly, it spurred a re-ignition of interest in this stuff again lately!

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Joseph P. Timperio




Location: N.E. USA
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri 24 Apr, 2009 1:45 pm    Post subject: Finger ring         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Good to see some more reviews and I can agree with Bill about the Doge's handling ( Although he is more qualified than me to give an opinion but it seems to confirm my impressions ).

With the finger ring I also wonder about how useful it is or what is the best way to grip the sword if one uses the finger ring ?

Does one hold with the upper guard close to the web of the hand " choking up " on it with the fore finger fully engaged or does one hold with the hand a little farther from the guard with only the tip of the index finger in contact with the finger ring ?


Hello, Jean, My name is Joe. I have been teaching stage combat, and fence classical Italian foil and epee. I 'd like to give you my opinion on at least part of your subject , if I may: If the sword is put together so that the finger ring or loop surrounds a section of blade that is sharp, it is merely a guard. If I put my finger (or fingers, depending on the weight of the weapon), through the ring, I assume that my finger is at least partly resting on the blade, the precursor of the ricasso,although I would refer to it this way in any case. No decent swordsmith would design a sword to be gripped on a sharp edge. And remember in combat, nothing protects you from everything!

Quote:
If choking up on the guard I can see the hand being in danger of being cut as the " meat " of one's hand bulges around the upper guard and, at least with the longsword, my instructor recommends leaving a small amount of distance between the hand and the guard as the guard protect the hand better this way.

One thought is that the finger ring is normally considered there to protect the finger ........ BUT, there is a small gap where a blade sliding down one's blade might slip by and still cut the finger !

I wonder if this finger ring or hook might not also be there to trap the opponents blade and possibly we mistakenly interpret it as a finger ring as later swords and sword techniques do use finger rings ?

The ring does give some protection to the finger but the side of the finger is still dangerously exposed to harm on the side of the finger ?

This problem being fixed with later much more complex guards and in the late 15th or early 16th century the use of gauntlets probably gave the finger adequate protection and the finger ring would or could be more for a handling advantage rather than just to protect the finger ?

I could be completely wrong about the above, but I thought I would just put the " theory " out there for discussion.

"Every war ought to be methodical, because every war ought to be conducted in conformity with the principles and rules of the art and with an object...The favorable opportunity must be siezed, for fortune is female-if you balk her today,you must not expect to meet her tomorrow."
-NAPOLEON-
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Joseph P. Timperio




Location: N.E. USA
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri 24 Apr, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Joe's clumsy post         Reply with quote

Sorry jean, I'm new to this forum, I'm used to a certain fencing website forum- bear with me. Hope you unravelled my post.
"Every war ought to be methodical, because every war ought to be conducted in conformity with the principles and rules of the art and with an object...The favorable opportunity must be siezed, for fortune is female-if you balk her today,you must not expect to meet her tomorrow."
-NAPOLEON-
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,163

PostPosted: Fri 24 Apr, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Joe's clumsy post         Reply with quote

Joseph P. Timperio wrote:
Sorry jean, I'm new to this forum, I'm used to a certain fencing website forum- bear with me. Hope you unravelled my post.


No problem but all I see is a quote of my post ??? So if you have a question or comment I don't know what it is as I don't see anything else in your post ? Big Grin Cool

( Note: I'm not an expert at fencing, so my post was mostly speculation and wondering what experienced fencers might make of my ideas here. )

Oh, thanks for bringing this back up in a " quote " since no one has yet commented

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Joseph P. Timperio




Location: N.E. USA
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri 24 Apr, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Finger ring         Reply with quote

Hi
Yeah, if you read closely my post is in the middle...never mind. What I was trying say:
If there are loops or appendages that travel around the blade, above the crossbar (as in earlier rapiers, that are almost as heavy as broadswoards) if they are to be used as places to hook your finger (or fingers), your fingers will of necessity come in contact with the blade, if they are intended for that purpose, that part of the blade will not be sharp. This is the precursor to the ricasso. These simple finger loops gave rise to the eventual swept-hilt rapier, then cup-hilt rapiers with crossbar, quillons and fully enclosed ricasso.
Many of these earlier rapiers did little to protect the hand; their earlier counterpart broadsword did even less, and people still looped a forfinger over the crossbar to improve weapon grip. It was not uncommon to find a battlefield littered with fingers as well as bodies.

"Every war ought to be methodical, because every war ought to be conducted in conformity with the principles and rules of the art and with an object...The favorable opportunity must be siezed, for fortune is female-if you balk her today,you must not expect to meet her tomorrow."
-NAPOLEON-
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