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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
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PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Nebenhut         Reply with quote

I can't find any information on the Nebenhut guard for longsword. How would it be used? I can only think of it behing moved into the pflug.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Michael,
Have you read the Sigmund Ringeck commentaries? There is an entire section dedicated to the techniques of this guard. As a general overview, its the position you finish in if you make a full, diagonal oberhau. Most of the techniques from here are used to defend against a strike from above, where you strike upwards with the short edge into the oncoming attack to deflect it or otherwise bind against it.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


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Ken Berry




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 5:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fighting with the German Longsword by Christian Tobler discusses all the guards including Nebenhut. Good book easy to follow.
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have heard that book is out of date from a few HEMA guys.

M.

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 8:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
I have heard that book is out of date from a few HEMA guys.

M.


While there are things in it that are out of date, it is still one of the few good overviews of the Liechtenauer tradition. To this date I haven't seen any book come close.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 8:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I might invest in a copy, then, as a sidelong to Codex Wallerstein (when I can afford one DHappy

M.

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Herbert Schmidt




Location: Austria / Europe
Joined: 21 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Hut you get in after a diagonal cut would be the Wechselhut to be extra correct.
The Nebenhut is held on your left or right side with the point showing backwards, pommel held more or less on your hip. The long edge is showing down.

The books of Tobler are good, I recommend the book of Lindholm.
Both are not really up to date any more but more than sufficient to start with.
There is another book that is up to date, but only in german...

best wishes

Herbert

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Greg Coffman




Location: Lubbock, TX
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Instead of thinking along the lines of, "how would it be used," think of the guards as natural positions the sword will be in from time to time. You can start in nebenhut, end in nebenhut, or be in a state of transition from one position to another or one cut to another. Generally speaking, all movements you make with the sword, especially cuts, are transitions from a guard, through a guard, and to a guard. For example, you can strike from nebenhut up to ochs. From ochs you can strike back down with a zornhau back into nebenhut and finish by brining the sword up to vom tag. I recommend practicing by doing transitions between all the guards you know. You should generally be able to get to any guard, from any guard. Likewise, you should be able to do just about any cut from any position. But it takes practice and familiarity...it takes time.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
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Jason G. Smith




Location: Quebec
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Herbert Schmidt wrote:
The Hut you get in after a diagonal cut would be the Wechselhut to be extra correct.
The Nebenhut is held on your left or right side with the point showing backwards, pommel held more or less on your hip. The long edge is showing down.

The books of Tobler are good, I recommend the book of Lindholm.
Both are not really up to date any more but more than sufficient to start with.
There is another book that is up to date, but only in german...

best wishes

Herbert


Well, actually, to be *extra* correct, Joachim Meyer called the left-side variant wechselhut, and it isn't done (to my knowledge) with the point back. This crosses the hands, which is an inherently weaker position. Most, if not al the resources I'm aware of place Ringeck's nebenhut on the left side, point forward à la Fiore's dente di zenghiar.

Caveat - I'm a Fiore practitioner who first studied Liechtenauer before "converting.' Some of my information may be out of date, though I try to keep up...

Best,

Les Maîtres d'Armes
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