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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: My new Odinblades Langes Messer         Reply with quote

Just arrived yesterday: My new langes messer from John Lundemo of Odinblades. This piece was heavily inspired by the messers seen in the fencing treatise of master Paulus Kal. The images in Kal show a very cool looking blade, and for years I've wanted one just like it. Having seen John Ludemo's work with some of the wild fantasy sabres he's done, I knew he could do this type of blade justice. I think John did a wonderful job at capturing the look: The blade is simply amazing. I can't wait to do some test cutting with this: John informs me that it cuts like a demon, and I have no doubt he's right! But rather than bog you all down with my words, I'll let the pictures do the talking. Happy


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A detail from Paulus Kal, which provided the inspiration.

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Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




Location: Michigan, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nicely done. Nicely done ! I think its cool when we enthusiasts dig into historical stuff
and see something that catches our imagination and then seek out making it real for
ourselves ...

Quite the unusual and unique blade, I'd say. But with that said, the piece has very simple
lines, if you will. It does, however, look like it might be a sunuvagun to get a scabbard
fitted ... B-)

Congrats !!!
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Daniel Michaelsson




Location: Dena Lagu
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, that's a beautiful sword. I think it's great that the inspiration came from an illustration, just goes to show how useful pictorial sources are.
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Steven H




Location: Boston
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ooooh. Nice.

Can we get stats on it? Big Grin

Cheers,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Clark Volmar




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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Incredible sword, Bill.

Think we could get a pic of the latter third of the blade, which details the termination of the fuller, the double clip, and the tip?

Thanks,
Clark

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. -- Douglas Adams
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very impressive looking messer there Bill and congratulations on getting such a unique piece made.

Any idea if the double clip at the top of the sword has any functional use by being double ? More or differently functional than the more " usual " single clip point ?

My guess would be that it's mostly an aesthetic thing and maybe proves that even in period people would or could be a little
" fanciful " in designing a sword: I mean if this messer wasn't based on a period drawing our first reaction would be to consider it a fantasy design.

One function of the double clip ( Well, that the best term I can invent to describe it ? ) is that it makes the blade look more lethal and scary and that a psychological effect of " YIKES, that looks as if it could really hurt " might kick in. Wink Laughing Out Loud

Sort of the same with the " Flamberge " type blades maybe ?

Oh, is the false edge sharpened usually on messers in the way a Bowie knife is sharpened or wide and unsharpened like the much earlier seax ? An unsharpened edge bevel ? ( Probably should remember from previous discussions about messers but just asking off the top of my head without re-reading older Topics threads ).

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Gary A. Chelette




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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Indeed the blade does look scary. One look at that blade and I'd run for the hills! I like falchions to begin with and Messers are just another form of falchion to me.
The piece looks very well done and impressive. Congratz on the purchase.

Are you scared, Connor?
No, Cousin Dugal. I'm not!
Don't talk nonsense, man. I peed my kilt the first time I went into battle.
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

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Sean Belair
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

congrats bill

awesome work john. i didn't know you were that close to done, wish i could have seen it before you shiped it.


i love messers
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some stats:

41 inches overall
32 inch blade
2 lbs 14 oz

Handling wise, it is a very nice sword. It strikes with incredibly authority, and has a nice "flow" when in motion. It is intended to be used one handed (which is typical for this type), and the long grip allows the large weapon to balance out nicely while still hitting hard. If I closed my eyes and someone put this in my hand, saying it was a type XIII, I would believe it: That's kind of the feeling that this sword has.

Having said that, I should point out that this particular piece is a little on the heavy side for a typical messer. Most messers tend to be very light. But I should also point out that this was more my doing than John Lundemo's. I requested a fairly large weapon (for a one hander), and the design calls for the blade to get wider at one section, then to taper a lot near the point. John, in keeping with my specs, needed to make sure the blade was "beefy" enough to handle stress. He even pointed out that he's making a different messer for someone that is significantly lighter, so he definately understands this. Nonetheless, the sword still feels very nice in the hand. Probably not the best type of weapon to be used with the techniques seen by masters such as Hans Lecküchner, but still an excellent combat weapon, particularly if you think of it more as a messer-hilted falchion (which is not quite the same as a messer).

Where this sword really shines is its ridiculously amazing cutting ability. I did some light test cutting with it today, and I was blown away at just how scary it is. I've never had a sword cut so easily before. That's not an exaggeration: Two of my students said the exact same thing. The edge geometry is remarkably keen, but backed up with a very thick spine, making a weapon that is super sharp and tough at the same time. Simple slices easily ripped through targets, and I could make cuts with nearly no effort. It was honestly a little frightening just how easily this thing can cut. I've used a number of swords for cutting over the years, from longswords to sabres to katana, and none of them cut with the ease of this messer.

This one's definately a keeper! Happy

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Any idea if the double clip at the top of the sword has any functional use by being double ? More or differently functional than the more " usual " single clip point ?


I'm quite certain its purely aesthetic. But it sure does look cool! In fact, the first time I saw this treatise (maybe around 2003 or so, I think), I thought, "That's the coolest fantasy sword I've ever seen. Only its not a fantasy sword." Happy And I've been wanting to have one made ever since.

Quote:
Oh, is the false edge sharpened usually on messers in the way a Bowie knife is sharpened or wide and unsharpened like the much earlier seax ? An unsharpened edge bevel ? ( Probably should remember from previous discussions about messers but just asking off the top of my head without re-reading older Topics threads ).


All of the ones I'm aware of have a sharpened false edge, though it is possible that some do not. There are a number of techniques where you would need to use that portion, such as the sturzhau, or "plunging stroke", where you essentially "plunge" your point downward, with your palm turned outwards. This can be a thrust, but if the opponent is closer, it is more of a cut with the last few inches of the sword.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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John Lundemo
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks alot folks and Bill! Both false edges were made sharp as per Bill's request, so the first peak is really pretty scarry. The side goes through the tang and is peened and the pommel is keyed on and forged and peened. The hollow rivets i've seen on a few messers so went with that. Can't wait to see what Bill does with a scabbard, what with the insane blade profile;)
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J. D. Carter




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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 9:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wicked looking piece. From the stats you provided it would appear that you had it designed with a slightly longer grip than the pictured piece that served as inspiration? Does it provide enough purchase to use it comfortably two handed?

I look forward to a full review at some point and may the light have mercy on the melons, jugs and mats that will be sacrificed in pursuit of testing it's cutting qualities.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

John Lundemo wrote:
Thanks alot folks and Bill! Both false edges were made sharp as per Bill's request, so the first peak is really pretty scarry. The side goes through the tang and is peened and the pommel is keyed on and forged and peened. The hollow rivets i've seen on a few messers so went with that. Can't wait to see what Bill does with a scabbard, what with the insane blade profile;)


Very nice work and with the false edge(s) both sharpened that peak should actually be functional and not just an aesthetic choice as I suggested earlier.

Also, the double false edges probably have an effect on the balance of the messer compared to a single but long false edge or at least there should be some differences in the way the sword/messer is optimizes for handling versus point profile and thickness.

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Steven H




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2008 5:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Some stats:

<snip>

This one's definately a keeper! Happy


Thanks. That's an impressive weapon. I want one.

Cheers,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2008 6:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. D. Carter wrote:
Wicked looking piece. From the stats you provided it would appear that you had it designed with a slightly longer grip than the pictured piece that served as inspiration? Does it provide enough purchase to use it comfortably two handed?


I'd asked for a "hand and a half" length grip, which is common in many of the treatises that deal with messer techniques. The extra length is often when you and your opponent have bound blades and you hook the other person's arm. Though, yes, I definately can hold the sword two handed, and it will work fine this way, but it feels the most lively one handed.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2008 7:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Clark Volmar wrote:
Incredible sword, Bill.

Think we could get a pic of the latter third of the blade, which details the termination of the fuller, the double clip, and the tip?

Thanks,
Clark


Here you go!



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Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2008 7:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As an additional, I feel the need to add that John does the best job of packaging a sword I've ever seen. He put together a wooden crate to make sure *nothing* damaged the sword in shipment.


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Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Ed Toton




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2008 8:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm really impressed with this, just from the description and the photos, without having had a chance to see it in person yet. A truly gorgeous and magnificent weapon, even admired from afar! Bravo. Happy

If you ever need someone to uhm... look after it for you... let me know. Happy

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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Aug, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

WOW! Great work. Enjoy that beauty! I love the blade....
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