Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Authenic sword form Hermann Historica Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni


myArmoury Alumni

Location: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Reading list: 72 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 1,191

PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2004 12:07 pm    Post subject: Authenic sword form Hermann Historica         Reply with quote

Howdy Folks,

I was browsing through the new catalogue at Hermann Historica http://www.hermann-historica-ohg.de, and I stumbled upon this stunning sword. There was a thread about owning antiques and I said that I'd rather own a sword that I could use, but after seing this piece I think I would have bided on it if I could afford it. For some reason this sword seemed "special"!?!?!? Or maybe its just my obsession with XIIIa and XIIa. This one looks like XIIIa to me. Is the cross-section hexagonal, or is it just my imagination? Anyhow I do not have $4000 to spend on an antique now.............maybe later..........much, much later..........

Directly form the web-site
"German, beginning of the 15th century. Heavy blade with a fuller on both sides. Brass cross inlaid on one side. Straight quillons with slightly thickened finials. Tang has deeply stamped smith mark. Slightly oval disk pommel, with the remnants of a stamped cross on one side. The chape which belongs to the sword is included. Cleaned and conserved excavation discovery. The surface has been partly restored by polishing. Length 128.5 cm."

Enjoy it,
Alexi



 Attachment: 12.06 KB
hermann-1.jpeg


 Attachment: 8.21 KB
hermann-2.jpeg


 Attachment: 76.69 KB
hermann-3.jpeg
brass cross inlaid
View user's profile Send private message
Steve Maly




Location: OKC, OK
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Reading list: 23 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2004 6:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great sword. Found this one there too. I wonder if the rayskin grip was added later? (most likely)

The text:
Italy, around 1480. Broad tapering blade with short double fullers. Both sides have stamped dot and sawtooth marks. Iron quillons slightly bent toward the blade with chiseled groove decoration. Sharkskin grip cover. Disk pommel with an antique silver coin set into one side with the likeness of Julius Caesar and a half round gem (Serpentine?) on the reverse. Length 99.5 cm.
High quality sword of the early Italian Renaissance.

WHY, OH WHY, WAS I BORN GOOD-LOOKING INSTEAD OF RICH?!?! Laughing Out Loud



 Attachment: 6.82 KB
28762_b.jpg


 Attachment: 6.82 KB
28762_b.jpg


 Attachment: 57.17 KB
28762_c.jpg


"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." ~A. Maslow
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,492

PostPosted: Wed 31 Mar, 2004 6:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some very neat stuff.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,970

PostPosted: Thu 01 Apr, 2004 7:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If that is a coin, wouldn't there be some Latin on it? It looks more like a medallion perhaps made for this sword. ??
View user's profile Send private message
Joel Whitmore




Location: Simmesport, LA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 342

PostPosted: Thu 01 Apr, 2004 9:38 am    Post subject: Victorian Copies?         Reply with quote

I am wondering if these are not victorian repros. That second one looks suspiciously like the sword attributed to King Henry V. Craig ( A&A) talked about this on the phone once, about the proliferation of victorian copies beign pawned off as original medieval swords. Makes one wonder.


Joel
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
James Ogle





Joined: 10 Mar 2004

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu 01 Apr, 2004 9:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It could be. However there are several swords listed that are "in the style of <century>" there as well. Those swords have much lower reserves for swords that appear to be in better condition than swords of a similar era. The company appears to be a fairly decent antigues dealer and the last thing an antiques dealer wants is to sell something that has been dated wrong.

An example is the Katzbalger that has a reserve of only about 370 dollars. That would make it cheaper than most new swords of that type. Running the description through Babel Fish results in, "modern preparation of collecting tank in the style around 1530. Strengthens, reciprocally doubly gekehlte blade with quadruple gekehlter false sharpness. At the blade beginning on one side doubly struck forging mark. Cut eyeglass container, Hilze from gekehltem, dark horn with typical, heavy Knauf. Length 85.5 cm"
View user's profile Send private message
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 21 pages
Reading list: 231 books

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 9,138

PostPosted: Thu 01 Apr, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Victorian Copies?         Reply with quote

Joel Whitmore wrote:
I am wondering if these are not victorian repros. That second one looks suspiciously like the sword attributed to King Henry V. Craig ( A&A) talked about this on the phone once, about the proliferation of victorian copies beign pawned off as original medieval swords. Makes one wonder.


Joel


They have a similar profile. The guard has similarites, but the blade shape is more Type XIV than XVIII, and the pommel is different enough.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Joel Whitmore




Location: Simmesport, LA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 342

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr, 2004 6:20 am    Post subject: No dishonesty implied here         Reply with quote

I am in no way trying to imply dishonesty on the part of the dealer. They may not know that the swords are copies ( if they indeed are). It just makes me wonder, especially with the find grip condtion of the second example, if these are original medieval swords. Without providence provided I would not give the asking price. I think we need Bjorn, or someone who is fluent in German to interpert for us. Perhaps the site does state that these are Victorian examples or gives dates of the make of each sword. The first sword looks more in line of the condition of most sword sof it's type and period that I haev seen. Now granted, I am far from an expert but looking my copy of Records of the Medieval, Sword in Hand and other texts, along with some actual historical examples I was able to glimpse in Scotland, sword B is in super condition. If it truely is an actual medieval sword then I think the asking price is far too low. Perhaps the seller is basing the price on what they paid to acquire it. I don 't know. Sword a looks like someone has tried to knock some rust off as parts of the blade look polished. Intriguing concept though.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni


myArmoury Alumni

Location: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Reading list: 72 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 1,191

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr, 2004 7:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Joel,

There are several nearly mint swords in "Records", so conditions is not always a dead giveaway of age. The first sword was found in excavation so the condition is consistent with it being berried for some time.
It has to be mentioned that ~80% of the swords that are found come from river finds (if I remember correctly the number given by Oakeshott). This simply means that most of the swords on display today are going to have the look of the first sword or worse.
There are examples of sword that were always taken care of, so these will look remarkably preserved. And yes, some of these "cared-for" swords have had their grips changed to reflect fashion or ware and tare from use.

Alexi
View user's profile Send private message
Joel Whitmore




Location: Simmesport, LA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 342

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr, 2004 3:16 pm    Post subject: Having trouble with the price         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
Hi Joel,

There are several nearly mint swords in "Records", so conditions is not always a dead giveaway of age. The first sword was found in excavation so the condition is consistent with it being berried for some time.
It has to be mentioned that ~80% of the swords that are found come from river finds (if I remember correctly the number given by Oakeshott). This simply means that most of the swords on display today are going to have the look of the first sword or worse.
There are examples of sword that were always taken care of, so these will look remarkably preserved. And yes, some of these "cared-for" swords have had their grips changed to reflect fashion or ware and tare from use.

Alexi


You are correct Alexi. However, I have trouble reconciling the prices mentioned with authentic medieval swords. Just my opinion. Buy if you wish, but I would not put out that money and expect to get a true medieval sword.

Joel
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni


myArmoury Alumni

Location: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Reading list: 72 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 1,191

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr, 2004 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Having trouble with the price         Reply with quote

Joel Whitmore wrote:

You are correct Alexi. However, I have trouble reconciling the prices mentioned with authentic medieval swords. Just my opinion. Buy if you wish, but I would not put out that money and expect to get a true medieval sword.

Joel


Hi Joel,

yes I was somewhat surprised at the "low" $4000 price tag. But I think that this is the starting price for the bidding, so it is more likely that the sword will be sold for more. That being said, I do not know what determines the asking price for antiques. I have certainly seen swords in worse condition being sold for twice as much. I guess what is known about the sword as well as the willingness of the potential buyers will determine the price.

If I had 4K to spend on unnecessary things (functional sword not included in that category), I will definitely go for the antique XIIIa. I would definitely have an expert take a look at it too.

Alexi
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Authenic sword form Hermann Historica
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum