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Shahril Dzulkifli




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PostPosted: Sat 24 May, 2008 2:26 am    Post subject: Cold Steel 1796 Pattern Sabre video         Reply with quote

Cold Steel 1796 Light Cavalry Sabre test cutting
This video looks interesting to me
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5_mCNoqqK0k


Last edited by Shahril Dzulkifli on Sat 24 May, 2008 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 24 May, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I moved this from the previous thread to put it into its own topic.
Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sat 24 May, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just watched the video. Personally, it doesn't really show off anything other than the fact that if you swing something sharp very hard, you can cut with it. The man's form is very bad, stepping into measure too early and having the sword go all the way behind him after the cut, and he's just making assumptions about sword usage. So I wouldn't view this as an educational video, but rather as just an advertisement for Cold Steel.
Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Shahril Dzulkifli




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PostPosted: Sun 25 May, 2008 10:23 am    Post subject: Cold Steel 1796 Pattern Sabre video         Reply with quote

Bill, that man in the video is Lynn Thompson, founder and president of Cold Steel Knives Inc. He tested perhaps all the swords and knives in every Cold Steel video.

Last edited by Shahril Dzulkifli on Sun 25 May, 2008 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Sun 25 May, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Cold Steel 1796 Pattern Sabre video         Reply with quote

Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Bill, that man in the video is Lynn Thompson, founder and president of Cold Steel Knives Inc. He tested perhaps all swords and knives in every Cold Steel video.


I think that is an excerpt from a DVD called "More Proof" that Cold Steel handed out to prospective dealers several years ago. I agree with Bill regarding the user's form, not that I am any kind of expert on that, but the actual cutting power of the blades was pretty impressive.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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D Critchley




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PostPosted: Sun 25 May, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:

So I wouldn't view this as an educational video,


Quite so. I find it somewhat hard to work out why they attribute the tulwar blade as an influence, when it is clearly documented that Le Marchant came to his conclusions based on the performance of the Austrian and Hungarian cavalry !

Indeed the only tulwars with the falchion type blade are the ones that used old 96 blades, most are more shamshir shaped.

But why let facts get in the way of marketing

David C

"The purpose of the cavalry on the battlefield is to give tone to an event that otherwise might be considered a common brawl"
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 25 May, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Cold Steel 1796 Pattern Sabre video         Reply with quote

Lin Robinson wrote:
Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Bill, that man in the video is Lynn Thompson, founder and president of Cold Steel Knives Inc. He tested perhaps all swords and knives in every Cold Steel video.


I think that is an excerpt from a DVD called "More Proof" that Cold Steel handed out to prospective dealers several years ago. I agree with Bill regarding the user's form, not that I am any kind of expert on that, but the actual cutting power of the blades was pretty impressive.


But he is probably self-taught and he has been at it for over 20 years ( Coldsteel started late 1970's of mid 1980's , not sure but I remember getting one of their Tantos around 1985 ): At that time there would have been very little known about western swordsmanship as most of the documents we have learned from where probably just collecting dust in library archives or collections of old books.

Learning to cut using Japanese methods would have been possible and in the knife making/collecting community, I think, cutting competitions already existed but that style of cutting wouldn't have been based on a martial art so timing, distance or any need to be economical in one's motion.

I do see a lot of overpowering and not letting the sword do the work by itself and having the sword swing wildly almost 360 degrees makes it very dangerous if anyone was standing close behind. Eek! ( Although I'm sure that no one was in any danger during these tests, in real combat I wouldn't want to be in a close melee if all the guys on my side swung like this !
I would feel safer being among the enemy. Razz Laughing Out Loud ).

Anyway, just conjecture and speculation on my part and to give M. Thompson a little " slack " here about his style of cutting.

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Sun 25 May, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Cold Steel 1796 Pattern Sabre video         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
But he is probably self-taught and he has been at it for over 20 years ( Coldsteel started late 1970's of mid 1980's , not sure but I remember getting one of their Tantos around 1985 ): At that time there would have been very little known about western swordsmanship as most of the documents we have learned from where probably just collecting dust in library archives or collections of old books.


The art of the sabre has had more than one living tradition for far longer than 20 years. Therefore "self-taught" doesn't exactly inspire much confidence for me. Happy

Quote:
Anyway, just conjecture and speculation on my part and to give M. Thompson a little " slack " here about his style of cutting.


*shrug* I don't really mind one way or the other what his form is like, but based on that video, I would hope people aren't assuming he's an authority, or even very experienced in sabre usage.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 26 May, 2008 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: Cold Steel 1796 Pattern Sabre video         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
But he is probably self-taught and he has been at it for over 20 years ( Coldsteel started late 1970's of mid 1980's , not sure but I remember getting one of their Tantos around 1985 ): At that time there would have been very little known about western swordsmanship as most of the documents we have learned from where probably just collecting dust in library archives or collections of old books.


The art of the sabre has had more than one living tradition for far longer than 20 years. Therefore "self-taught" doesn't exactly inspire much confidence for me. Happy



Yes, I wasn't precise enough with the choice of my words: I was talking about Longsword techniques ( Liechtenauer and others traditions) rediscovered in the last decade or so, I realize that sabre and other Western fencing traditions where still available for study as they where never lost or forgotten and still living traditions even into the early 20th century as fighting arts and not only sports fencing: But didn't express myself clearly.

I will also agree that a lot on the video is probably misinformation, partial information seasoned with some invention and marketing hype i.e. Not a reliable source of historical or technical information and mostly just over-enthusiastic marketing hype.

I'm in sort of a forgiving or mellow mood about it because I like a lot of the Coldsteel products. Wink Laughing Out Loud ( Mostly folders and fighting knives and walking sticks ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Allen Andrews




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PostPosted: Mon 26 May, 2008 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They sent me a copy of the VHS when I bought one of the closeout poleaxes. It is a marketing video, and while it is entertaining to see grown men having fun chopping things, I don't think it was really intended to be instructional.
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Jason K





Joined: 04 Jun 2008

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jun, 2008 6:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I find this an interesting post as I am looking to get a Cold steel 1917 Naval Cutless. However I had a question I wanted to ask, I have seen these on Ebay for 140.00 to 170.00 however on COldsteels websight they want 279.00. The ones on Ebay are advertised as the same as the ones on Coldsteel. However, I am always a bit concerned if the "price seems to good". The names of the folks on Ebay selling these include one store named "grendals cave" another named "poor fish store" Thanks everybody I appresiate the help.




Jason,
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Dan P




Location: Massachusetts, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jun, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason, Cold Steel's website is well-known for listing suggested retail prices that are often up to twice as much as "net" prices. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to see this sword on Ebay for much less. If you really want to be certain though, you could buy from a well-known online vendor such as Kult of Athena (http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~CS88CS~name~Cold+Steel+1917+Naval+Cutlass.htm).
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Shahril Dzulkifli




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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jul, 2008 5:14 am    Post subject: Cold Steel 1796 Pattern Sabre video         Reply with quote

I wonder if Cold Steel reproduces newer swords other than the 1796 Pattern Sabre in the future.
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