| Author |
Message |
Dan Kary
|
 Posted: Fri 27 Feb, 2026 12:55 pm Post subject: Skean question |
 |
|
Hi everybody,
I'm sure many of us have seen Tod's awesome new skeans and videos about them (check them out if you haven't on the Tod's Workshop and Tod Cutler channels on YouTube!).
I have a question in virtue of learning that little bit more about them. Tod highlights the unusual construction of them. There is, however, at least one skean I know of that didn't have that same construction using wedges. It uses a more or less standard peen with a pommel or pommel cap. It also has a round, non-waisted grip. Tod, as some of us might remember, used to sell one (it is still available at kult of athena: https://www.kultofathena.com/product/tod-cutler-irish-scian-or-skean-medieval-dagger/) and there are others who sell, or sold, very similar ones.
Wulflund sells this: https://www.wulflund.com/weapons/swords/other-swords/irish-skean-xvi-century-battle-ready-replica.html/
An Irish arms one was featured here: https://myArmoury.com/nateb_dagg_ia_skean.html
Apparently this style is based on one from the river Shannon. I'm wondering if this was a weird one-off, or if it is an earlier, or later development (Wulflund says 16th century, which I think makes a contemporary of the wedge constructed ones). Any insights?
Thanks guys!
Dan
|
|
  |
 |
|
Ryan S.
|
| Posted: Sat 28 Feb, 2026 1:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
I got the impression that Tod discontinued the old version of the scian because he wasn't satisfied with its accuracy, possibly after reading the book on it. The Rambling Kern did a short review on the book and said that most repos weren't that accurate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsSdf_reEuw
I think especially the wedges isn't something that is going to be apparent from art and information about scians is rare. Do you know any information about the Shannon river scian?
|
|
|
|
|
Dan Kary
|
| Posted: Sat 28 Feb, 2026 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Ryan.
I don't, but I was assuming that it was three makers all basing it on the same skean find. Otherwise, was it one of them just copying the others. I'm making that assumption just to be charitable I guess. I have, in the past, tried to find the original Shannon river skean and I was never able to find it - now I am hoping somebody can shed light on this. I suppose, however, until evidence is produced, skepticism is probably the rational course.
Thanks for the video link. I will for sure check that out. I should really follow the Rambling Kern. I've watched a few of his videos and I enjoyed them.
|
|
|
|
|
Dan Kary
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ryan S.
|
|
|
|
|
Dan Kary
|
| Posted: Yesterday at 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the links!
I'm pretty convinced now that these older river Shannon skean reproductions are fantasy rather than being based on some atypical skean - as I assumed was the case. The question nagging me now is why? Even if somebody made this thing up on the spot and called it a skean, why would everybody just copy that instead of just copying some museum work? Is it because, until recently, there wasn't much available and the only thing people had to go off of was the original fantasy skean? (assuming that it is a fantasy piece - of course absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but I think the time to believe something is when there is evidence...).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ryan S.
|
| Posted: Today at 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dan Kary wrote: | Thanks for the links!
I'm pretty convinced now that these older river Shannon skean reproductions are fantasy rather than being based on some atypical skean - as I assumed was the case. The question nagging me now is why? Even if somebody made this thing up on the spot and called it a skean, why would everybody just copy that instead of just copying some museum work? Is it because, until recently, there wasn't much available and the only thing people had to go off of was the original fantasy skean? (assuming that it is a fantasy piece - of course absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but I think the time to believe something is when there is evidence...). |
One of the commenters on the YT video said Tod based his earlier reproduction on this picture:
 [url]
I don't think that picture is particularly accurate, but it is only one besides Image of Irelande that I could find showing the hilt. It is possible that it is from a composite of sources. I also think someone mixed up the dagger. Rynne, in his article about the Limmerick skean, includes drawings of three other skeans, one of which is missing a hilt and another one also recovered from the River Shannon near Athlone. The one missing the hilt (discovered in Ballycolliton) is the one that resembles the repos in my opinion. I found another article on them on JSTOR and both appear to be in the National Museum of Ireland, but I am having technical difficulties searching the collection on their site. The Ballycolliton skean appears to have a different form of hilt attachment.[/url]
|
|
|
|
|
Dan Kary
|
| Posted: Today at 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the picture. Those shirts are neat and the Rambling Kern has some videos about them I have saved to check out later. The armored arm is really interesting, as is that sword scabbard. There's a lot of cool stuff in that picture!
Well the scabbard looks absolutely right and the guard looks good (if the picture is right). The blade, of course, is fine. But that handle and pommel doesn't even for the reproduction so yeah it might be a composite. That almost looks like a wheel pommel with a typical quillon dagger grip!
I think you might be onto something Ryan about it being a composite, but where's that grip and pommel? I wonder if it was the case that it's just an uncarved grip and the ring at the pommel end was interpreted as a pommel cap?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic