[Veronica W.]

Hello everyone,

I'm writing a book in which a character fires a flintlock pistol (the year is 1654). I have some questions about how to fire it and am hoping someone here can help.

I know this is very rudimentary, but would it be correct to say that the person firing the pistol pushed forward on the lever with the flint (rather than cocking back, as with modern guns)? Then, does it stay cocked forward until it is fired? Does something else need to be done in order to fire?

Also, would a soldier have kept it packed with gunpowder? Would you need to reload after every shot?

Thank you so much!

Veronica W.

[Sean Flynt]

Be sure to read Gordon Frye's review of a so-called "dog lock" pistol:
http://www.myArmoury.com/review_mvt_doglock.html
The photos, in particular, will help you visualize the process I describe below. The dog lock technology is a few decades earlier than your period of interest, but it's still a form of flint ignition. It's more primitive than the weapon in your character's hands, but is prepared for firing the same way and features all the parts described below.

We have some active shooters here, and they'll correct my sequence if it's off. My description, especially concerning the order of the priming/loading may apply more to military longarms and paper cartidges.

To fire a flintlock firearm of that period, you'd pull back on the cock (with a flint or spall in its jaws) until it catches at half-cock (a safety position from which the weapon cannot be fired-thus the term, "going off half-cocked"). Then you'd open the priming pan by pressing forward the hammer (aka, frizzen or steel). With the hammer tipped forward under its spring tension, you'd add a small amount of fine powder to the pan. Returning the hammer to its position over the pan completes the priming. Next, you pour a measured amount of powder into the barrel of the weapon, drop the (lead) ball in after the powder and withdraw the ramrod from a channel beneath the barrel. Use the broad end of the ramrod to seat the ball firmly against the powder and then replace the ramrod in its channel. The weapon is now ready to fire a single projectile. Pull the cock back one more "notch" to full-cock, aim and squeeze the trigger. The tensioned cock will pivot forward and down, scraping the flint against the face of the hammer/frizzen/steel. The force of the cock snaps the hammer forward, uncovering the pan full of powder, as the flint strikes a shower of sparks from the hammer. The sparks ignite the priming powder, which in turn ignites the main charge via a small hole in the barrel at the base of the priming pan (the touchhole). The gas produced by the ignition of the main charge sends the ball towards its target. Missed? Reload as above, draw your sword or run.

[Veronica W.]

Thank you, Sean! That's just the info I needed. I can see it clearly now.

best,

Veronica

[Dan Dickinson]

Sean pretty much covered it all...the only thing I'd add is that for safety I'd be nervous with priming the pan before I load the barrel, even if the cock is at half cock...it's fairly safe, but not foolproof...better not have the lock primed to fire until the barrel is pointing downrange rather than towards you as you load. As far as military use with cartridges it does make sense to prime first as you are using powder from the cartridge and have to put the rest down the barrel, but I think that in civilian use, loading from a flask, etc. priming would be last.
Hope this helps,
Dan


Woops, I just re-read your original post and it sounds like your character may be a soldier....so he may be loading with cartridges...though I'm not sure of the commonness of using paper cartridges in pistols in the mid 1600's....anyone else want to chime in on that?

[Lin Robinson]

I do not know for sure when paper cartridges came into use, but it was probably around 1700. It is not wise to prime a gun before loading the main charge but, as was pointed out, when using paper cartridges a part of the main charge was used to prime the pan. Soldiers did occasionally carry powder horns but they were not standard issue in most armies.

Sean covered the process of opening and priming the pan pretty well, but since Veronica seemed a little confused about the cock versus the frizzen (or battery or steel or hammer) it should be noted that the cock is "cocked" by pulling it back, not pushing it forward. Also, to further illuminate Sean's statement about what happens when the trigger is pulled, the flint strikes the hardened steel face of the frizzen (or battery or steel or hammer) and shaves bits of white hot metal from it and that is what falls into the priming pan to ignite the powder located there.

[GG Osborne]

And don't fall into the misconception that this was necessarily a slow process. A Rifled barrell (one in which spiral grooves are cut into the steel on the inside wall to impart a spin to the projectile and thus greatly improve accuracy) could be balky due to powder fouling or the residue of incompletely combusted powder that clogged the grooves. However, if your character is a military man, the barrels were probably smooth-bore, i.e. no grooves or rifleing, and the process was much faster. Although this was a bit later than your period, the weapons were, in all major aspects, the same and a British Army manual of the 1750s stated that a common soldier was not to be dismissed from drill until he could fire 16 rounds in 3 minutes 15 seconds or a sustained rate of fire every 13-15 seconds or so. Now, did this actually happen in real combat, probably not. Is it possible? Yes, I have tried it myself and, with a little muscle training, it can be done.

[Lin Robinson]

[Daniel Staberg]

Paper cartridges were in use as early as the mid-late 16th Century though not on a large scale. From 1600 onwards they began to be used more extensively by the cavalry as can be seen from the fact that pistols holster began to be manufacture with internal cartridge holders commonly holding 3 cartridges for each pistol. But initaly it was common to prime the pistol using a priming flask as this was precived to give more controll over the process and the fact that priming powder was supposed to be of a better quality than the main charge.

The infantry was slower to adopt paper cartridges and cartridges only became common from the 1670's onward and had replaced the bandolier in most armies by 1700.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

[Veronica W.]

Thanks to everyone who so generously replied! This isn't the first time I've posed such a random question to this site, and am always so impressed with the quick and incredibly informative replies.

Thanks everyone for the help!

best,

Veronica W.

[George Hill]

[Lafayette C Curtis]

[George Hill]

[Lin Robinson]

As far as I know, "tap loading" was never practiced by conventional forces. The ramrod was brought into play at all times.

There are some accounts, which may be apocryphal, that Roger"s Rangers used that technique and, in fact, bored the touch holes of their muskets out so that the pan would be primed when the main charge was dropped in. That would also require the use of a naked ball, because, as pointed out, fouling builds up rather quickly in a smoothbore musket. I might add that boring out the touch hole will also reduce the velocity of the round somewhat as a certain amount of force is blown out of the touch hole on any flintlock. Using a naked ball will also produce lower velocities.

I would also submit that loading a pistol is not easier or quicker than loading a musket.

As George points out, with training it is possible to load a musket, using a paper cartridge with undersize ball, four times in less than a minute. I have seen it done. A round every 15 seconds was required of the British soldier.

[Clarence Mabry]

Hi all,

I usually lurk, but here’s my 2 cents worth on reloading speed. While this technique is a bit later than we are talking about, the American Civil War, it may have been used. However, I do not have any reference that it was.

When a company of men were in formation and going to perform fast volley fire, they would stick their ram-rods into the ground or in the socket of their bayonets that were stuck in the ground. The time saved by not having to replace the ram-rod back into the weapon allowed for faster reloading.

While socket bayonets may not have been available for this time period, the time saving from not having to replace the ram-rod, may have allowed for an extra round being fired in a three or four minute period.

[Gordon Frye]

Most of the replies jibe well with my own knowledge of shooting flintlocks and such, but concerning the use of paper cartridges let me chime in here.

To begin with, paper cartridges were well known by at least the middle of the 16th Century, as pistols were being used in conjunction with "patron" boxes, which were iron-mounted blocks of wood with the requisite number of holes drilled into it to house a number of paper cartridges, and fitted with a spring-loaded iron cover. The box was usually carried slung over the shoulder, but as the box was small and usually held no more than five or six rounds, it's rather inconspicuous. But they were definitely in common use for Cavalry by the 1560's, and probably somewhat earlier.

The 18th Century British manuals were pretty specific about the loading sequence, and the rapidity of fire. However, know that the practie fire with recruits was done with wooden dowels, rather than with actual paper-wrapped powder and ball. Makes the whole sequence somewhat faster, since you don't have the awkwardness of paper that won't tear when you try to rip it with your teeth, pouring too much powder into the pan, and having difficulties in either charging the cartridge into the muzzle or maneuvering the rammer into the muzzle or replacing it within the pipes of the stock. The whole exercise was, as noted above, one to give muscle memory to the recruit. But there's also a trick to this. If you read the manuals closely, you will notice that the musket is assumed to be loaded and primed when the exercise is begun, so there's one entire loading sequence that doesn't have to be engaged in prior to the stop-watch being started.

Even though the recruit was expected to be able to "load and fire" up to 5 rounds a minute on the parade ground, fire under combat conditions was another thing entirely. While Prussian troops of the mid-18th Century were supposed to be able to fling out fire rounds a minute, the Brits were content with four, as I recall, and that only for a very short time. After fouling came into play, the rate of fire was significantly reduced due to the difficulty in ramming the ball home.

As far as tapping the musket butt on the ground to seat the ball, it was certainly done in the Renaissance, but much harder to do with paper cartridges since they tend to fit tighter, and not "roll" in. I've read 16th Century references to doing this, but only when rapidity of fire was more important than safety. Indian and Metis "Buffalo Runners" of the 19th Century did this sort of thing to, tapping the butt of their trade muskets on the pommel of their saddle to seat the ball when "running" along side buffalo during a hunt. But they paid a price in maimed hands etc. when the ball either didn't seat on the powder, or started rolling back down the bore prior to ignition. Bad things happen when there's a gap between the powder and ball, usually being a burst barrel.

BTW, I've never come across a reference to regular troops putting their rammers in the ground in front of them when engaged in volley fire, but one never knows what Volunteers or Militia will do. But it strikes me as a good way to loose your rammer at a very awkward stage of the battle...

Anyway, Veronica, good luck with your novel, let us know when you get it published!

Cheers!

Gordon

[Lin Robinson]

Gordon...

There are contemporary illustrations showing Civil War troops (militia or regulars I do not recall) with their ramrods stuck in the ground. Whether that was artistic license or not I do not know, but I agree that is an easy way to lose your ramrod. At best, it may fall over and you would then have to kneel down and feel around for it.

Everything is easier on the parade ground than in battle and George did mention that the standard of four rounds per minute for British troops was probably never met during combat. Starting with a loaded and primed musket is also an advantage, but to sustain the four rounds a minute was most likely the objective. Fouling will slow everything down eventually but by that time the officers have probably ordered a bayonet charge with empty muskets!

Good point about the buffalo runners. I completely forgot about them since this thread was covering military matters. They took a heck of a chance loading the way they did. It may be of interest to everyone to note that the ball seating situation also exists when loading black powder brass cartridges. Firing a black powder cartridge with a gap between the charge and the bullet will almost always result in a ringed chamber. That's why black powder cartridge are filled with enought powder to at least slightly compress the load.

[Gordon Frye]

Lin;

Good points all. One thing that I forgot to mention is that most soldiers of the 18th Century (and I will assume that goes for the early years of the 19th Century as well) generally practiced with blank cartridges, rather than ball. This is pointed out in a fair amount of correspondence prior to the American Revolution by British Officers who were keen to improve the marksmanship of their soldiers, and to get them used to the actual kick of the muskets prior to firing them in a combat situation. The point here being, firing blanks is also faster than firing ball, since you don't have nearly the problem with forcing paper past the fouling that you have when using even a wildly undersized ball (as I recall, it was a .69" ball in a .75-to-.77" bore musket).

This point is especially noteworthy:

[Lin Robinson]

Gordon...

Another good point regarding the downloading of the carbine round. Filler is essential in that case.

I have owned a .45-70 Pedersoli Sharps rifle for four years but have never fired it due to time constraints. I am looking forward to doing so very soon, with black powder cartridges, because I like to be authentic! To help me understand all that I should about these things I bought two books. The first one is "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" by Mike Venturino. The second IS "SPG Lubricants BP Cartridge; Reloading Primer" also by Mike Venturino, with Steve Garbe, the inventor of SPG bullet lube. Mike has been shooting these guns for a very long time and has put his wide variety of experiences into both of these works. I think anyone who has not loaded black powder cartridges needs to read these books before they do so. There are also other works on the market covering the subject but I think that Mike is up to date and has done a fine job of laying everything out for the layman as well as experienced black powder shooters. I fired my first black powder gun in 1968 and have shot all kinds since, except the cartridge variety, but you can never have too much reference material available, whether you are a first time shooter or a veteran in need of refreshing your memory. I mention this in case our thread or any other on these subjects stimulates the readers to try these wonderful guns. Always be safe!

[George Hill]