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Kevin Frost
Location: Denver, Co. Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: Heat treating armor? |
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I have been wondering if there is any documentable evidence for heat treating plate armor after it had been shaped into it's various forms? I don't really see any reason why it couldn't have been done. Any information on the subject would be highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Kevin Frost
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Hugh Knight
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: |
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A lot of higher-quality armor was heat treated. Find a copy of Alan Williams The Knight and The Blast Furnace
Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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David Evans
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 2:52 am Post subject: Royal Greenwich Armouries |
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There's a little book, published by the Royal Armouries with the snappy title of "The Royal Armoury at Greenwich 1515-1649: A History of Its Technology (Royal Armouries Monograph)" which tests the pieces of armour examined and discusses the state of play with regard to the hardening armour. It's differenty done, in vbarious ways, and not always with a great deal of success. The book does also mention some sources that cover the subject.
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: |
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They did the same testing as David mentioned on some of the Rhodes armour in "The Medieval Armour From Rhodes".
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Hugh Knight wrote: | | A lot of higher-quality armor was heat treated. Find a copy of Alan Williams The Knight and The Blast Furnace |
That's a ~$300 dollar book by most listing services.  The Rhodes book isn't a lot cheaper these days. Besides the monograph Allan mentioned, are there more reasonably priced books that discuss armour heat treating?
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Justin King
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: |
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The History Channel had a show on not too long ago that showed a fellow heat treating a breastplate in an open coal forge. The breastplate was used for penetration tests with an approximation of an "English war bow". The show was interesting but as usual I take these things with a grain of salt...In any event I have run across a few references to hardened/heat treated armor in my modest readings. A process similar to case hardening is mentioned in some references, the armor being forged from more or less plain iron and then "steeled" by introducing carbon under heat.
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: Info |
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Hi Chad
Not really as far as books. There are some articles. Most authors alluded to it being done but do not give any real detail.
Here is a link to an article I wrote before the Knight and the Blast Furnance and Rhodes books came out that deals with some of it.
Some Aspects of the Metallurgy and Production of European Armor
Best
Craig[/u]
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Kevin Frost
Location: Denver, Co. Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Chad Arnow"] | Hugh Knight wrote: | | That's a ~$300 dollar book by most listing services. The Rhodes book isn't a lot cheaper these days. Besides the monograph Allan mentioned, are there more reasonably priced books that discuss armour heat treating? |
Do you happen to know what the titles of these more reasonably priced books are?
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Kevin Frost wrote: | | Chad Arnow wrote: | | That's a ~$300 dollar book by most listing services. The Rhodes book isn't a lot cheaper these days. Besides the monograph Allan mentioned, are there more reasonably priced books that discuss armour heat treating? |
Do you happen to know what the titles of these more reasonably priced books are? |
That was my question. The Royal Armouries monograph Allan talked about goes for about $25. The Rhodes book is often over a $100.
I intend to check out Craig's article, too.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Kevin Frost
Location: Denver, Co. Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | That was my question. The Royal Armouries monograph Allan talked about goes for about $25. The Rhodes book is often over a $100.
I intend to check out Craig's article, too. |
Ooops. I guess that is what I get for reading forums before I have had sufficient coffee.  I thought you were stating that there were books available that were not so cost prohibitive.
Kevin
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James Barker
Location: Ashburn VA Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 365
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| Posted: Fri 23 Feb, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Justin King wrote: | | The History Channel had a show on not too long ago that showed a fellow heat treating a breastplate in an open coal forge. The breastplate was used for penetration tests with an approximation of an "English war bow". The show was interesting but as usual I take these things with a grain of salt...In any event I have run across a few references to hardened/heat treated armor in my modest readings. A process similar to case hardening is mentioned in some references, the armor being forged from more or less plain iron and then "steeled" by introducing carbon under heat. |
The host from that show was an interpreter for Leeds Armory for many years; the show was the weapons that made Britain. Those tests and others from Leeds are the best I have yet to see but again none are perfect.
James Barker
Historic Life http://www.historiclife.com/index.html
Archer in La Belle Compagnie http://www.labelle.org/
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Jonathon G
Location: NE Ohio Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sat 24 Feb, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: |
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I don't KNOW if they did or not, but i would think that lots of plate armor of all types would split under heavy blows if it was just hardened, for it to last more than just one or two incursions I, personally, would think that most plate armor would have been tempered to some extent. It can flexable enough to take heavy blows and still hard enough to provide an effective defence.
Chaos Ex Vita
Chaos Is Life, to deny this is folly, but to embrace this is terrible.
Noctum Aeternus
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Justin King
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 24 Feb, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Jonathon G wrote: | | I don't KNOW if they did or not, but i would think that lots of plate armor of all types would split under heavy blows if it was just hardened, for it to last more than just one or two incursions I, personally, would think that most plate armor would have been tempered to some extent. It can flexable enough to take heavy blows and still hard enough to provide an effective defence. |
Tempering of some sort is usually inferred (at least in my mind) when a piece of steel is referred to as being heat treated, since it is usually, but not always, a necessary part of the heat treating process to avoid brittleness and internal stresses that the hardening quench creates. Blades that are hardened but un-tempered have been known to warp or even crack some time after quenching, hence the preference of most modern blademakers to temper immediately after hardening.
There are some exceptions, of course, and tecniques that blur the lines somewhat.
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Doug Strong
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| Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Not only were they doing it. (see responses above) but many high end reproduction armourers are doing it today. Robert MacPherson was one of the modern pioneers in this.
I've done lots of it. It really makes a difference.
Dr. Douglas W. Strong
http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/
http://armourresearchsociety.org
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Al Muckart
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| Posted: Thu 01 Mar, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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There is a Neurosurgery Article co-authored by David Edge among others entitled Head Protection in England before the First World War that goes into reasonably deep detail of heat treatment of armour.
You have to pay to download a copy but the abstract is here
The guts of it is that until quite late in the 16th century, most stuff was barely, if at all, heat treated. From my reading of their analysis of carbon contents and metallic structures in period pieces, modern mild steel is quite a bit superior to what they were working with. Late in the 16th century in England, slightly but not much, earlier in continental Europe, you start to see successful but inconsistent heat treatment.
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Al.
http://wherearetheelves.net
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This is a standard topic