[Risto Rautiainen]

Last summer I went to a museum exhibition about the life and travels of Per Brahe (Pietari Brahe in Finland). He was a Governor General in Finland in 1648-1654 and governed well, hence the exhibition. The most intriguing item at the exhibition was his two handed (!) rapier and it has been bothering me ever since. Sorry I don't have a pic, because photographing was prohibited, but I'll try to describe it. First of all it was long, about 150 cm (IIRC) and the wire wrpped handle was clearly long enough for twohanded use. It was cup hilted and had a narrow (maybe an inch at it's widest) blade of lenticular and fairly thick crossection. The tip of the sword was thin enough for moderate cutting. First I thought of it as just a peculiar oddity, something that would look cool in the exhibition, but then I read the item's description. Per had actually used the thing during his time in Poland and it had saved his life in battle. Because of that he wanted it to be present at his funeral, which it did. I tried to find a curator who would answer my questions, but I was in a hurry and it was a travelling exhibition anyways, so I doubt they wouldn't have had any more info than what the text had to say.

So does anyone have examples of other two handed rapiers or any clue how one would go on about using one? Half swording would be BTW great with that thing. Any other info about Per's sword would be appreciated.

[Wolfgang Armbruster]

That's one of the strangest weapons ever.
Like you describe it sounds more like a cup-hilted sharp estoc/tuck to me. Too bad you didn't take pictures.

[Bill Grandy]

If what you're describing is what I'm thinking of, I've seen pictures of these before. They seem to be late Renaissance, and the hilt looks very much like a modern foil with a grip to accomodate two hands. There's a picture of one, I believe, in Swords and Hilt Weapons (my books are in disarray at the moment, I'll check later).

I've wondered about their use myself. While I can take guesses, overall I'm unaware of any evidence that explains how such a weapon would be used or why.

[Bill Grandy]

[Bill Grandy]

Sorry, I don't have a scanner, but here's a quick photo of it.

[Peter Johnsson]

Did the sword look anything like this?

If so, I think I have actually handeled this wepon. It belongs to the armoury of Skokloster. Per Brahe´s Broher´s son, Nils Brahe inherited this castle from his uncle. Skokloster is a fantastic place and I have been generosly met by Bengt Kylsberg, the head of collections at many visits over the years. In the armouries are some incredible weapons. And *many*...

I have drawn the sword from memory, so it is not incredibly exact, just to give an idea and possible idetification for this thread. The hilt (of French or Dutch style?) is blackened and has a grip long enough for two hands. The blade is very long: I´d say slightly over one meter (about 105-110 cm?). The cross section is oval (without any edge at all) and completely blunt for the most part of the blade. The point is sharp. I don´t really remember how far back the sharp edge reaches from the point, but I think it was a short section of sharp edge behind the point.
I think it has a short fuller in the forte.
It has a strong prescence, feeling sturdy and dependable. You won´t cut with it, but it will surely thrust with ease. You could also use it for whacking someone sensless, breaking bones and faces.

Edit:
After reading Risto´s intial post again, some more things to add. As to use, it would have been used from horseback. The lenght of the grip is strange as two handed use of a tuck from horseback does not make much sense (short lance?). Perhaps it is to allow for balanceing of the very long blade (with some possible back up for two handed use in melé?).
The blade could well be as long as 120 cm or so (my initial estimate was a bit timid), with a hilt of some 25 cm total.

[Peter Johnsson]

[Risto Rautiainen]

[Wolfgang Armbruster]

Maybe that design was an attempt to combine the advantages of the rapier and the longsword.
I can't really figure out how that was supposed to work.....

[Mikko Kuusirati]

[Caleb Hallgren]

It certainly doesn't look all that sturdy.......

[Bill Grandy]

[Axel Pettersson]

My first guess was that it could give the user some surprise reach, but I know little on rapier usage and can't back that up. To use it mounted seems like a more probably idea (to me atleast), it could explain the length, and the fact that it was used in battle (like a light lance more than a sidearm, someting Im under the impression thrusting rapiers seldom were in battle). I saw a similar straight sabre with a very long blade, I think here on myArmoury ( Polish I think, about the time for the battle at Vienna where the Ottomans were stopped, cant find the link, but it wasnt posted too long ago), that was used on horseback, it could be the same concept.

[Jonathon Janusz]

Peter, if you felt like pounding out a pair of these weapons when you're bored some weekend, I'm sure there would be a couple of folks lined up behind me to volunteer for some experimental archaeology in regards to their use.

Seriously, though, this design is now on my list.

[Anthony Densmore]

First of all, I apologize in advance for any glaring evidence of ignorance.
I am here to learn.

To that end, I have a quesiton about this oddity.

Would the double-handed use of a rapier like this be detrimental in the loss of the off-hand for parrying, or would the added hand provide enough manouverability to compensate for such?

[Bill Grandy]

[Jared Smith]

[Korey J. Lavoie]

What comes to my mind is that a sword of this unusual type would be used with a heavy emphasis on half-swording technique. Perhaps even gripped with both hands on the blade, using it in a manner similar to a spear?

[Vincent Le Chevalier]

[Bill Grandy]