Chain mail rings per square inch -- myArmoury.com

Jonathon G · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: Chain mail rings per square inch

Does anyone know what a traditional ring diameter/ gauge for a hauberk would be, or a way to calculate how many rings i would need? I want to a 3/4 length coat of mail. thanks
Jonathon G

Chris Olsen · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject:

I can't comment on the "historical diameter" because I don't know, but when i did my hauberk which goes about to my knees (i'm 6 foot) I figured I used a little over 12,000 rings with an inner diameter of (I am measuring right now) just a little shy of 3/8 of an inch, this based on three bags of 5,000 rings each, with enough left over to 1) dump quite a few down my duct work by accident, and 2) to make a bishops mantle

hope that is of some small help

Jeff Hughes · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject:

no expert but it would depend on

1. weave i.e. 4-1 6-1

2. gauge and diam.

mine is short sleave fits 6' 3" buddy mid thigh. euro 4-1 made from coiled and cut 14g 3/8 steel rings from cattle wire from tack shop. 1/2 mile is about 30 bucks. it took aprox 14k in rings give or take a few hundred. i also use the site the ring lord and in kit section to judge on how many rings i might need.

Jeff Hughes · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject:

no expert but it would depend on

1. weave i.e. 4-1 6-1

2. gauge and diam.

mine is short sleave fits 6' 3" buddy mid thigh. euro 4-1 made from coiled and cut 14g 3/8 steel rings from cattle wire from tack shop. 1/2 mile is about 30 bucks. it took aprox 14k in rings give or take a few hundred. i also use the site the ring lord and in kit section to judge on how many rings i might need.

Jonathon G · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject:

where did you get your rings and wire from? i am looking into 2mm dia,10mm RID rings made from aluminum. i want to make a hauberk in the turkish style with the front open in a 4-i- 1 weave that will end up being between 55-60' long. also how long did it take you both to 1: coil,cut, and open/close your rings and 2: actually weave them?

Ed Toton · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject:

I too can't really speak to the historical numbers either. But I think you can expect maybe 10-20,000, depending on the weave, size of the rings, and the pattern you use (overall width, length, size of the sleeves, etc).

I've found that the inner diameter is the biggest influence, and not so much the gauge. Think of it this way-- If you make a linear chain from single links, the distance you cover is completely dependent on the inner diameters. In a two-dimensional pattern, the gauge starts to come into play in that it'll affect how flatly the rings can lay against each other at the weave's maximum extension.

I'm "nearing completion" (in quotes since the last 10% is taking me years, literally, due to lack of motivation) on my aluminum set. I have a hauberk and coif done in 14 gauge, 3/8" inner-diameter rings, in 4-in-1 pattern. The hauberk alone has at least 12,000 rings in it (and so far it hangs to my thigh, not down to my knees yet), and probably quite a bit more, since it's 122 rings in circumference and about 95 rows tall, not taking the sleeves into account. I suspect it'll be well over 15k rings by the time it's done, possibly closer to 18k.

In my case I bought quarter-mile spools of electric-fence wire. So far I've used up two and have just recently started into the third. This is probably one of the cheapest ways to do it, but you need to spend the time coiling it yourself. I coil it onto a 3/8" aluminum rod using a power-drill, and cut the links out using a set of 8" bolt cutters. Many people don't like this method because it leaves a "V" cut and not a nice smooth flat cut.

I can't really estimate how long it takes very easily. I'm not the fastest at weaving it, but I usually add a row to the hauberk in about 20-25 minutes. This includes time untangling the links from the bin I keep them in. I probably use just as much time again in the coiling and cutting phase, though maybe faster. I haven't kept track.

Jonathon G · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject:

this is what it will roughly look like.

Jonathon G · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject:

what kind of a store did you get the electric fence wire at, becuase that is the exact kind of material that i have been looking for .

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject:

Hauberk and coif shown here are around 35,000 t0 40,000 rings.

Ed Toton · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject:

Electric fence wire can be bought at a farming supply store, or a hardware store that has farming supplies. If you don't have one nearby, you can google for it. I've seen some fair prices online, but it's been a while since I've looked.

This is a fairly current photo of my aluminum set:

Ed Toton · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject:

Oh, here's another way to estimate how many rings I might have used. If you assume each link uses an average of 1.25" of wire (3/8" * pi is really about 1.18", but the wire thickness adds to it, and I make a wide coil, not perfect circles, and there's always some wasted clippings), then 1/2 mile = 25344 rings. So I've probably used somewhere in the ballpark of 25,000 rings for both the hauberk and the coif so far.

Jonathon G · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject:

so far i am planning on making it about 50-60" long and about 55" around for a slightly loose fit. i want to make full length tapered sleeves at 23" each and the whole affair opening in the front and secured shut buy leather cord( or another "undiscovered" closure that will mesh well with the over all design. (no pun intended) So far all of my estimates put me at about 43,178 rings in all ( i WILL count them as i weave.....)

Jonathon G · Posted: Tue 13 Feb, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject:

also, my calculations put me at about 5397.25 feet of wire not including enough for coiling and trimming,etc. (my heating ducts are a tad bit hungry too.)

Frank Mahoney

Dan Howard · Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 12:36 am Post subject:

The vast majority of mail since the earliest sample found at Cuimesti (4th C BC) was made of alternating rows of riveted and solid rings. There is no point asking for historical dimensions if you are not replicating this construction. Butted mail requires a different ratio of wire thickness to ring diameter.

Tord Grasmo · Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 8:13 am Post subject:

If you want to make a historical chainmail coat, I wouldn't use aluminium. I'm not claiming to an expert but I do know that Napoleon(either he or Luis XIV) used aluminium plates to the finest cutlery of his. In other words, aluminium was extremely expensive.

I've just started on my chainmail armour, I use steel, not stainless, and not galvanized, pure steel. It's not hard to make rings. every other hobbyshop got to have steel wire, so not hard to get.

For inner diameter I would be far more concerned for making them to big than too small. As far as I know the only drawback of making them too small is that it's a hell to work with, but it's still more or less historic. if you make them too big they won't give any protection, i.e. not historic. If you really want a heavy project, make a small ringed two-layer kneelength mail with long sleaves(I know people that've done it)

Jeff Hughes · Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 11:22 am Post subject:

Jonathon G

a few things that might help if you wind 2 coils at once. as it allows ring to be open for weaving. then do single coil for closed rings. i use both while weaving. useing a rod and electric drill coils go fast. i use a pair of Cobolt Cutter with Spring from theringlord.com. as far as time it does ad time but reduces cost. cattle wire or electric fence wire are same thing and you can find it at any farm or feed store. i use cattle wire from steel but you can get alum fence wire.

i have been working on my set for about a year 95 % complete. but i'm not try to hard.

looking at the picture and depending on your size you may be looking at 18-22k in rings or about 1/2 mile of wire

Ed Toton · Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject:

Aluminum certainly isn't historically accurate for mail, but it has the advantage of being light, and looking almost identical to steel. You can get the appearance you want, and be able to wear it all day comfortably for demonstrations, renfaires, or whatever.

Jonathon G · Posted: Wed 14 Feb, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject:

yes, it is nice and light. using the shirt calculator on theringlord.com i figure on about twenty pounds of aluminum (which is much less than i expected) or about ninty pounds of steel, which would be more accurate, but oi don't really want to walk around all day with an extra 90 lbs. Also i don't plan on ONLY wearing to to faires and such, i will wear it on a regular basis so the lighter weight will REALLY be noticable

Carl Goff · Posted: Thu 15 Feb, 2007 8:56 am Post subject:

You might want to double-check your calculations, there, boyo. A mail hauberk shouldn't be clocking in at ninety pounds in steel or 20 in aluminum, unless you're planning to work in 12 ga. 1/4" or thicker, and you already said you weren't.

I've used that shirt calculator before, and it's very easy to get a bizarre (far too heavy or light) result if you punch in one variable wrong.