Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search


myArmoury.com is now completely member-supported. Please contribute to our efforts with a donation. Your donations will go towards updating our site, modernizing it, and keeping it viable long-term.
Last 10 Donors: Anonymous, Daniel Sullivan, Chad Arnow, Jonathan Dean, M. Oroszlany, Sam Arwas, Barry C. Hutchins, Dan Kary, Oskar Gessler, Dave Tonge (View All Donors)

Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > The "Reichsschwert": Saint Maurice Sword Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 8:44 am    Post subject: The "Reichsschwert": Saint Maurice Sword         Reply with quote

Dear friends,

Couple of years ago, I was involved in the reconstruction and recreation of the Reichsschwert (the so-called Saint Maurice sword) that is kept in Vienna, Austria. As many of you know this sword was used for coronation of German emperors and kings over centuries. As you will see in the following article, we were provided with all the dimensions and as well the pictures. Additionally, the very well-researched book "Das Reichsschwert" was used for the recreation. You can find my article here:

http://www.persianmirror.com/Article_det.cfm?...ategory=32

Kind regards

Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry friends,

a big part of the article is missing including the story on how the sword was made by the German team. I already contacted the editor-in-chief. THis will be added soon. Refernces are also missing.

Kind regards

Manouchehr

:

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Brian M




Location: Austin, TX
Joined: 01 Oct 2003

Posts: 500

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great article! Interesting to see all the small details which are impossible to get from a typical photo, as well as the measurements. Thanks for the link.

Brian M
View user's profile Send private message
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you very much Brian.

Now you can read the whole article. The article needed to be divided in two parts as I was informed. Please note that the pictures are also divided:

Part 1:

http://www.persianmirror.com/Article_det.cfm?...ategory=32

Part 2:

http://www.persianmirror.com/Article_det.cfm?...ategory=32

Kind regards

Manouchehr

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de


Last edited by Manouchehr M. on Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
Joined: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very cool.
I had no idea you were involved with that project.
Congratulations on the publication!

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
View user's profile Send private message
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

John Cooksey wrote:
Very cool.
I had no idea you were involved with that project.
Congratulations on the publication!


Thank you very much John. Actually next to Persian and Japanese arms and armor, I am truly fascinated by European arms and armor and have good contacts to museums as well. I hope I can dedictae more time to this field in future. I love European swords and armor. European armor is truly fascinating.

Kind regards

Manouchehr

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,310

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Manouchehr;

I see that you have been a member here since the beginning or almost the beginning and I'm glad that you seem to be posting often these days. Cool

Just want to express my appreciation for all the great pics and Topics you have been posting recently as they have all been very interesting.

Congratulations on the article. Cool

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Manouchehr;

I see that you have been a member here since the beginning or almost the beginning and I'm glad that you seem to be posting often these days. Cool

Just want to express my appreciation for all the great pics and Topics you have been posting recently as they have all been very interesting.

Congratulations on the article. Cool


Thank you very much Jean for your kind words. Sorry for not posting so ften. The last years were really hell as I had to work on my book and was really busy. Now after the publication I have much more time. Thanks again. I will post more and have many other things to share with my friends here. Thanks again.

Kind regards

Manouchehr

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Brian M




Location: Austin, TX
Joined: 01 Oct 2003

Posts: 500

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw the pics and reconstruction info. Wow. I never knew the original had a gilded hilt, as from the B&W photos it simply looks like polished iron.
I own one of Albion's St. Maurice-Turin swords, which is also a great weapon if much more plain.
I also own an Albion Gaddhjalt, which is quite similar to the St. Maurice-Vienna, if again undecorated and with a somewhat broader blade.
Now I would love to see an affordable copy of the St. Maurice - Vienna. I have had my eye on Arms and Armor's version (which is quite nicely done) but now seeing the full details of the original I would not be as satisfied with it.

Brian M
View user's profile Send private message
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you very much Brian for your kind words and support. THis sword is true magic and marvellous. One thing that is amazing for me is the whole sword is in a perfect condiction as it was used in coronation ceremonies. The blade is so old and still intact and in perfect condition. It has been resharpened at time. It has its flex and all. This is really fascinating to see that such an old sword has endued the course of time to stay in a perfect condition. Contrary to what many people think steel can remain in good shape if taken care well of.

As you see the handguard and the pommel of this sword are gilded. As I mentioned in my article a colored copperplate engraving, made in 1750 A.D. and published in 1790 A.D. (see Schulze-Dörrlamm, 1995: plate 2), shows this clearly. This plate is online on German Wikipedia, note that this short article there is mainly based on Schulze-Dörrlamm's book "Das Reichsschwert." I would really like to recommend that book to anyone who is seriously interesed in studying this sword.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsschwert

Its scabbard is also a piece of art. Its reconstruction would take years but as I mentioned there is another reconstruction of this sword with its scabbard that is kept in Aachen, Germany. The pommel and handguard are of massive silver and gilded.

Note on the copper plate, there is another sword that is called Zeremonienschwert (the sword of ceremonies). THat is also a lovely piece.

KInd regards

Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani




Brian M wrote:
I saw the pics and reconstruction info. Wow. I never knew the original had a gilded hilt, as from the B&W photos it simply looks like polished iron.
I own one of Albion's St. Maurice-Turin swords, which is also a great weapon if much more plain.
I also own an Albion Gaddhjalt, which is quite similar to the St. Maurice-Vienna, if again undecorated and with a somewhat broader blade.
Now I would love to see an affordable copy of the St. Maurice - Vienna. I have had my eye on Arms and Armor's version (which is quite nicely done) but now seeing the full details of the original I would not be as satisfied with it.

Brian M

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni


myArmoury Alumni

Location: New Hampshire
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 2,160

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan, 2007 3:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Many thanks for such an in depth look at this wonderful sword, M !

My congratulations, thanks, & appreciation, Mac

'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan, 2007 4:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas McDonald wrote:
Many thanks for such an in depth look at this wonderful sword, M !

My congratulations, thanks, & appreciation, Mac



Thank you very mcuh for your kind words and support. I really appreciate it.

Kind regards

Manouchehr

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jan, 2007 11:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dear friends,

If you have any questions regarding this sword and its blade, or whatever, please ask, I will be happy to help.

Kind regards

Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 919

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jan, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

yes, Manucher, i will exploit your kind offer asking brazenly a big question ...

What is the distal taper of the original blade?

Distal taper is just the gradual tapering of the blade thickness, measured at regular intervals from the starto of the blade to the tip (see this review for a deriving an idea of how to measure the distal taper of a sword).


I'm reconstructing a plain knight sword of this same type, profile is derived from the Reichschwert and the Glasgow sword with a similar shape, but I have no data on the typical distal geometry of such class of swords.

Obviously you should answer only if you can.

I would also be curious to know more technical details about the smithing process involved in the reconstructions, as well as to know wether the original has been the object of some metallurgical analysis or research.
View user's profile Send private message
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jan, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Bruno,

Thank you very much for bringing this up. Please give me some time and I will ask for the measurement of distal taper. Give me some days please. Now I understand what you mean with distal taper, first I did not understand that.

Please let me know at which interval you need the blade to be measured? Let's say starting from the vross every 4 cm up to the tip?

The handle and the cross are made of silver in the original and they are not iron. They were made via lost-wax process as the original. The reconstructed parts are partially nielloed and enamelled as the original as well.

The blade is forged by Mr. Johannes. he has a very good reputation in making quality blades. I cannot give you details of the forging process. But I handled the blade, it has excellent harmonics and a very good sound upon being struck. I will give you the required measurements soon. If you have any questions I would be happy to help.

Could you please show us a sketch of the sword you are planning to make?

Thanks.

Regards

Manouchehr





Bruno Giordan wrote:
yes, Manucher, i will exploit your kind offer asking brazenly a big question ...

What is the distal taper of the original blade?

Distal taper is just the gradual tapering of the blade thickness, measured at regular intervals from the starto of the blade to the tip (see this review for a deriving an idea of how to measure the distal taper of a sword).


I'm reconstructing a plain knight sword of this same type, profile is derived from the Reichschwert and the Glasgow sword with a similar shape, but I have no data on the typical distal geometry of such class of swords.

Obviously you should answer only if you can.

I would also be curious to know more technical details about the smithing process involved in the reconstructions, as well as to know wether the original has been the object of some metallurgical analysis or research.

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 919

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jan, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Manouchehr M. wrote:
Hi Bruno,

Thank you very much for bringing this up. Please give me some time and I will ask for the measurement of distal taper. Give me some days please. Now I understand what you mean with distal taper, first I did not understand that.

Please let me know at which interval you need the blade to be measured? Let's say starting from the vross every 4 cm up to the tip?

The handle and the cross are made of silver in the original and they are not iron. They were made via lost-wax process as the original. The reconstructed parts are partially nielloed and enamelled as the original as well.

The blade is forged by Mr. Johannes. he has a very good reputation in making quality blades. I cannot give you details of the forging process. But I handled the blade, it has excellent harmonics and a very good sound upon being struck. I will give you the required measurements soon. If you have any questions I would be happy to help.

Could you please show us a sketch of the sword you are planning to make?

Thanks.



Regards

Manouchehr



Shape derives from either reichswert or the Copenhagen swords, both are depicted in the type XI feature article on this website (first two swords)

http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spotxi.html

I just measured the pics and transferred them to the blade blank through mathematic proportions, so I have not a sketch since I designed the blade on metal with a very thin felt pen I couldn't taken any usable pic of.


well, you would do me a great favor, thank you
View user's profile Send private message
C.L. Miller




PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd like to chime in and thank you for sharing this with us. The Reichsschwert is beyond doubt one of the finest surviving medieval swords, and a personal favorite of mine, I'm glad to see it being given more attention and more information concerning it being brought to light. I do have a number of comments...
If I'm reading the article right, all of the evidence presented concerning the scabbard appears to support the conclusion that it was made during the 11th Century... how can this be reconciled with the conclusion that the sword itself was made around the end of the 12th century? I find the problems in dating this weapon extremely interesting. It seems incredible that such a broad range of dates have been suggested, and that, in terms of the morphology alone, the sword should be capable of fitting into a time span covering 300 years! This is really a perfect example of the difficulties of typology and in the analysis of period artwork. Nevertheless, since it can still be endlessly fascinating to debate such things...
I notice that the article cites Schulze-Dörrlamm's classification of the sword as a Geibig type 12, which seems to be an accurate assessment. I'd like to suggest, however, that the blade might be a transitional form between types 12 and 13, as it possesses some shared characteristics of both types, and in a few (such as the slimness of the blade) tends towards type 13. There may of course be a compelling argument against this suggestion, but it makes sense to me.
I'm personally fascinated by these long, slim swords of the 12th and 13th centuries, especially the even longer (often broken) German examples documented by Geibig. I'd love to have the opportunity to handle such a blade. Alas, they do not seem to be well represented among the swords created by modern smiths, most of those which come close are rather shorter and broader of blade.
Hats off to Mr. Johannes for making what appears to be a very fine reproduction, and to you Manouchehr for sharing your fine article with us!
View user's profile Send private message
C.L. Miller




PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think it's also worth mentioning that it's extremely refreshing to see not only such a finely written, in-depth article appearing online, and particularly so because this one is both so finely documented (a rarity) and covers such a breadth of sources. Thank you again Manouchehr!
View user's profile Send private message
Manouchehr M.





Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you very much Bruno for the explanation. I already asked about the information on distal taper and will report it as soon as I get them.

Kind regards

Manouchehr

http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de


Last edited by Manouchehr M. on Sun 21 Jan, 2007 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 5,739

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jan, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Manoucher,

Crongratulations on your part in helping recreate this significant sword. You're definitely a busy man!
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > The "Reichsschwert": Saint Maurice Sword
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum