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Matthew Amt
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 Posted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: New Bronze Naue II from Neil Burridge |
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Another new sword just arrived from Neil Burridge, a Naue type II. He asked me to post photos and a review, taking special note of the REALLY nice job of edge-hardening that he did! I'm only too happy to oblige.
Overall length is 24-1/2 inches (c. 61.5 cm), weight 1 pound 10 ounces. Only one side has been roughly sanded, so it still needs to be finished.
The raised ridge running through the hilt is a channel for the molten metal, so it needs to be ground away, and the side flanges need to be thinned a little, too. Easy work.
The detail photos of the tip and blade show the hardened edge, which has yet to be actually sharpened. You can even see the tool marks--it was hammered to that shape, not ground.
Whoops, looks like the tip photo is a little too wide to post--try a link:
http://www.larp.com/hoplite/NBNaue2c.jpg
Thank you, Neil, great sword! In case you don't already know, you can see other lovely pieces that he sells on his site,
http://www.templeresearch.eclipse.co.uk/bronz...r_sale.htm
Enjoy,
Matthew
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Looks really good. The tip link is a good illustration of the problem with work hardened edges, i.e. you can't easily work harden the tip, only the edges leading up to it. If you do hammer the tip to harden it, it ends up being rounded. The same evidence seems to be present on museum examples (some at least) thar I've seeen. Neil has done a very nice job on this one though.
Geoff
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M. Eversberg II
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| Posted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice Mathew -- Hoping to get one myself sometime in the future.
M.
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Wed 17 Jan, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting your new sword, Matthew. I keep thinking about redirecting my interests towards Bronze Age, and I would like to get some of his pieces.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Thu 18 Jan, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: |
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But isn't the tip already quite serviceable for thrusting? Looks like it already has quite a sound shape, even if the very apex was not as hardened as the rest.
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Thu 18 Jan, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | | But isn't the tip already quite serviceable for thrusting? Looks like it already has quite a sound shape, even if the very apex was not as hardened as the rest. |
I expect you're right, although it may have depended on what you were thrusting through. You do see examples where the work hardening has resulted in a (relatively) blunt tip. Playing with my Ewart Park example from Mr Burrridge, it feels more like a cutting than a thrusting sword, so the tip hardness may not have mattered so much. It is interesting (to me, at least)that the relatively greater density of bronze over steel can result in a sword with considerable heft, despite (again relatively) a shorter blade. I've never handled a Naue type, so I can't say if the same applies with that profile. As you say (and as I said above) Mr Burridge has done a fine job of taking the edge hardening right to the tip while still leaving it 'pointy'.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 18 Jan, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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A hardened tip might not be that important as I think the non-worked hardened bronze is probably hard enough and strong enough in it's softer state: The hardening of the edges is not so much because it increases hardness of the edges for structural reasons but that it makes the bronze capable of taking a sharp edge. I think the hardening might even make the edges slightly more brittle but not too much if not overdone.
Oh, if the hardening is more than very shallow and is through the entire thickness of the edge and point, a rounded point might be files back into a sharp point instead of a spatulate one without removing all the hardened bronze. ( A question I'm not saying that this is so. )
Also a spatuale but sharp point is still very effective in a thrust and very effective for tip cuts.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Thu 18 Jan, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | A hardened tip might not be that important as I think the non-worked hardened bronze is probably hard enough and strong enough in it's softer state: The hardening of the edges is not so much because it increases hardness of the edges for structural reasons but that it makes the bronze capable of taking a sharp edge. I think the hardening might even make the edges slightly more brittle but not too much if not overdone.
Oh, if the hardening is more than very shallow and is through the entire thickness of the edge and point, a rounded point might be files back into a sharp point instead of a spatulate one without removing all the hardened bronze. ( A question I'm not saying that this is so. )
Also a spatuale but sharp point is still very effective in a thrust and very effective for tip cuts. |
Mr Thibodeau
Thank you for the correction. I will bow to your greater knowledge on this matter.
Regards
Geoff
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 18 Jan, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Geoff Wood wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | A hardened tip might not be that important as I think the non-worked hardened bronze is probably hard enough and strong enough in it's softer state: The hardening of the edges is not so much because it increases hardness of the edges for structural reasons but that it makes the bronze capable of taking a sharp edge. I think the hardening might even make the edges slightly more brittle but not too much if not overdone.
Oh, if the hardening is more than very shallow and is through the entire thickness of the edge and point, a rounded point might be files back into a sharp point instead of a spatulate one without removing all the hardened bronze. ( A question I'm not saying that this is so. )
Also a spatuale but sharp point is still very effective in a thrust and very effective for tip cuts. |
Mr Thibodeau
Thank you for the correction. I will bow to your greater knowledge on this matter.
Regards
Geoff |
Thanks for the complement but I don't want to misrepresent my level of expertise here: Most of what I said is speculation, I hope logical speculation !? I would try to find out about how deep and wide is the hardening on the edges before filing any of it away. I Would think that at the very edge it would be hardened more that just on the surface because if the hardening was only on the surface any attempt at sharpening would be futile.
Again just guessing that the hammered section would be hardest closets to the edge. ( Maybe 1/8" or 1/4" from the edge, again a guess.   )
I would imagine talking to the maker would be the best way to get reliable answers about how to sharpen and where the bronze shouldn't be hard.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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