Tomas Aiala Sword, from Toledo -- myArmoury.com

Giuseppe Maresca · Posted: Thu 07 Dec, 2006 1:54 am Post subject: Tomas Aiala Sword, from Toledo

This is probably the best and more valuable sword from my collection (if it is authentic...).
The sword is signed by Tomas Aiala, a famous swordsmith in Toledo, dated around 1600.
Unfortunately the sword lacks of its handle, so now I own only the blade.

total lenght: 986 mm
edge lenght: 832 mm
max width: 20 mm
thickness: 7 mm at the ricasso to 1,5 mm close to the point

wheight: 240 gr
The point of balance (pretty useless to know without the handle) is collocated around 45mm after the end of the groove.

The blade is pratically blunt, even if I suppose that it wasn't sharp neither in the past, since it is a piercing weapon and has a thick cross section. It is slightly bent on one side, but in overall good conditions.
In the grooves is marked "T - O - M - A - S" on one side and "A - I - A - L - A" on the other side.

Here some pics:
The Blade
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...Aiala/LamaS.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...Aiala/LamaD.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1305.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1304.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1301.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1299.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1298.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1308.jpg
The point
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...Aiala/Punta.jpg
The Tang
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1309.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...ala/CodoloD.jpg
The Marks
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...iala/Dett-1.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...0Aiala/Dett.jpg
Some detail of the fuller and the letters inside
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1313.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1312.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1311.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/Giu...la/DSCN1310.jpg

I hope you like it
Giuseppe

Bruno Giordan

Did you find it in Naples?

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Thu 07 Dec, 2006 3:57 am Post subject:

Isn\'t AJALA the correct spelling?

(ok, just to be overzealous)

Giuseppe Maresca · Posted: Thu 07 Dec, 2006 6:45 am Post subject:

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Fri 08 Dec, 2006 6:10 am Post subject:

Naples was under spanish political influence.

In the North we have mainly german blades from Passau or local blades.

Addison C. de Lisle · Posted: Fri 08 Dec, 2006 6:19 am Post subject:

Is that a threaded tang? It looks like it is from one of the pictures.

Neat looking blade.

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Fri 08 Dec, 2006 11:13 am Post subject:

Tomas Aiala as a maker is a bit like Andrea Ferara. Tomas was a blade maker whose name was later spuriously stamped onto blades to give the impression of quality. His name (in various forms) can be found on blades that have quite a range of dates (17th century through 18th century). Here is a recent discussion of Tomas from SFI.

Jonathan

Addison C. de Lisle · Posted: Fri 08 Dec, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject:

Upon a closer look it also looks to me like the shoulder (?) of the blade (where the tang becomes the blade) isn't rounded, which I think I remember being bad. Also, the fuller looks very slighy wobbley to me. I could just be seeing things though, Is this evident person or is it just the picture?

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Fri 08 Dec, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject:

As was stated in the SFI thread--it depends on what is meant by authenticity. While the blade may not have been a Tomas Aiala original, it could very well be at least an 18th century blade. Of course, it is never easy to assess authenticity from photos on the internet. (Giuseppe, is the Aiala stamped or etched onto the blade?)

The evenness of the fullers is not always a great indication of age or authenticity (depending on how we are defining that!). Swords had, and have, varying degrees of quality. My oldest sword, an English infantry hanger from c.1720-1740 has a narrow fuller that wobbles in a spot or two, and even one of my British infantry swords from c.1845-1855 does not have perfect fullers.

A note on the origin--the blade could very well be German. Bruno mentioned that many swords in Northern Italy are from Solingen, and that could be the case with this one, too. I have a blade stamped ANDREA FERARA that bears a king's head mark similar to that of the Wundes family of Solingen, which has led me to believe it is German.

Giuseppe, did the blade ever have a hilt?

Jonathan

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Fri 08 Dec, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject:

Here is a sword with a blade marked to Tomas, and it is quite similar in form to the one discussed in this thread.

Jonathan

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Sat 09 Dec, 2006 2:10 am Post subject:

This is the opinion of the spanissh expert at swrodforum, I think it summarizes well the various aspects of the question

Juan J. Perez's Avatar
Juan J. Perez (Offline)
Moderator, Spanish Language Sword Forum

Posts: 836
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Barcelona, Spain
10-07-2006, 10:42 AM
Hello,

Tomás de Ayala (or 'Thomás de Ayala', or 'de Aiala'), was a highly reputed Toledo swordsmith from the late 16th, beginning of 17th centuries. Although his biography is very obscure, it can be said that around 1625 Tomás stops working, and is succeeded by his son, Luis.

Ayala's works were widely copied, and many years afer his death many swordblades were still stamped as 'AIALA', and various other misspellings of his surname. 'TOMAS IAIA' may well be among them. It was pretty much the same case as Ferrara's blades.

Best,
Juan

I think this blade is authentic, being an heirloom (I thought our friend had made a lucky find in Naples ...) being probably an ancient blade with a faked marking, as it was often made, in my brescian area they were faking german and spanish blades too.

We should however consider that Naples' political story was heavily intertwined with Spain, most of the neapolitan nobility is spanish to some degree, so a true spanish blade shouldn't be considered uncommon there.

I think he could try to contact the University of siena (Italy), there is an interesting laboratory of archeometallurgy there, maybe they could help him establish an age and value for that blade.

Giuseppe Maresca · Posted: Sat 09 Dec, 2006 2:26 am Post subject:

Giuseppe Maresca · Posted: Sat 09 Dec, 2006 2:32 am Post subject:

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Sat 09 Dec, 2006 10:21 am Post subject:

I think that in any case you have a valuable antique in your hand.

Let me know what the people in Siena will say to you, I have also some questions to ask them.

Giuseppe Maresca · Posted: Sat 09 Dec, 2006 11:25 am Post subject:

I searched on the web site of the University, but I didn't find nothing about the archeometallurgy laboratory you was talking about, so I don't know how to contact them.
Anyway I sent the photos of my blade to an expert friend, and I'm waiting for an answer.
Are you Italian, Bruno? For me it would be a lot easier to communicate. Obviusly by private message.

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Sun 10 Dec, 2006 4:15 am Post subject: