[Joep Klijs]

Since we are talking about rondel daggers anyway, I have another question. At present I´m shopping for a short distance weapon (dagger) and my gut-instinct tells me a rondel is a better martial arts tool than let´s say a baselard.
It just seems more suitable for the icepick-grip. I don´t have any experience to back this up though. Does anyone care to comment on this?

[Jeremey Davis]

I'm not sure about "better" but they are different. The rondel is designed to puncture, which it does very well. A flatter bladed weapon, like a baselard, has a better ability to cut and is incidently a more handy tool for non-fighting things. Another thing is most fatalities are the result of stab wounds, not cuts. That said, many knife fighting styles make use of flicks and harassing cuts, which the rondel is essentially incapable of performing. Because of blade geometry, the rondel is also better suited to actions that require grasping your own blade. So overall, there are pro's and con's to each.

I'm not entirely sure what you're actually looking for, but for personal defense (when I'm not carrying a firearm) I carry a karambit (Hibben Claw II). It's suited more towards the grappling / boxing techniques that I'm comfortable with.

[Nicholas Zeman]

I would add that a rondel is an excellent tool for armored combat, or against an opponent wearing light armor or heavy padding. I would also add that it is not the ideal tool for unarmored combat or against somebody in short sleeves due to the fact that using the edge to cut and or slash would be a useful if not important tool in this kind of engagement. I study Fiore's dagger techniques and I have found that although they work great against an opponent using strong upward or downward thrusts they don't carry over so great against small wrist cuts with a knife. Certainly with some modification to technique rondels can be used against a knife-wielding opponent, but really a fighting knife or Bowie knife I feel is superior in terms of both defensive and offensive capability when talking about an unarmed engagement. Since they have good thrusting and cutting ability on bare skin or light clothing you get a better tool for combat compared to a thrusting-specific weapon like the rondel.

[Jean Thibodeau]

There seems to be a great variety in rondel blade styles: They are mostly all narrow or very pointed. Some have reinforced points and little in effective cutting edges or blade sections, that even if sharp at the edge, are too obtuse to be deep cutters.

Light harassing cuts maybe ? Some single edged rondel like the A & A one have a decent cutting edge and should cut well but not so well as a wide bladed type of thin stock.

Were versatility is concerned I also don't know, but am curious how much do the guards lock the hand in place ?

This locking in place may be a great advantage when used against armour.

With my John Gage ballock dagger I think I have more options in the way I can comfortably hold the knife and it's blade is very similar to many rondels of the single and sharp edge types. As well the blade is stout enough for a rondel and even with a good amount of distal taper the thickness near the point is still robust.

It may be true or not but the ballock is said to be a civilian weapon and the rondel perceived as more of a weapon for armoured combat.

Anyway, the main thing is how does the handle style limit or enhance performance ?

[Adam R]

[Sean Flynt]

Don't overlook the Katzbalger or messer. Easier to find the former than the latter, but worth looking at both.

[Joe Fults]

[Bob Burns]

Finally, I got around to adding a rondel dagger to my collection, a mildly customized rondel from Arms & Armor, the difference being that instead of a 12 inch blade I have a 13 1/4 inch blade and there is "No" false edge at the tip, which creates for one very powerful point. Not being very well versed in the use of the rondel dagger in combat but having achieved a high rank in the martial arts I can see there is a definite advantage to having this 1/4 inch thick spine along the blade in combat tactics of which I as of yet have to learn. Still, I am very fond of my rondel and I left it completely up to Craig Johnson on how he wanted to do it and said I would pay whatever price it came out to be in the end. Over the last year and a half we've developed a very good business relationship and Craig instinctively seems to really know what works best for me and that's an awesome thing to have, wherein your "Main Go To Guy For Weapons" has a really good understanding of you

Sean brought up the idea of the Katzbalger and the Messer, both of which I have a great affection for, especially the Katzbalger by Arms & Armor and the Knecht by Albion Swords In fact, I almost went for the Knecht but the relentless calling for the Vassal was just far too great to be able to free myself from, it was a "one or the other" choice and as completely NUTS as I am about the Vassal, I know I made the right choice, but still that Knecht is a real beauty to behold

As I understand it, the Messer was the typical home defense weapon of 16th century Germany While the Katzbalger was more the weapon of the mercenary

I finally reasoned, "Hey Bob, you cannot have a serious collection without owning a Rondel Dagger "

Sincerely,

Bob