| Author |
Message |
Merv Cannon
|
 Posted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 6:05 am Post subject: The Elusive "Spider " helmet |
 |
|
This is the only web-pic I can find of the elusive "Spider "Helm and its a terrible photograph ...it looks like a portable Bar-B-Que photographed in a storm at night !
This one is marked as 1650-1700 .
I would be very appreciative if someone could post any better pictures of this rather rare helm type. I'd also appreciate any additional data on who wore them.......cavalry I assume ?
Thanks !
 Attachment: 22.45 KB
[ Download ]
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
|
|
   |
 |
Sean Flynt
|
|
 |
|
Merv Cannon
|
| Posted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey thanks Sean.....thats most cool ! And, in fact I remember viewing the page some time ago and got so absorbed by the shots of items ...I cant remember what happened ...I got interrupted before I got to the Spiderhelm....they are still wierf though.....I assume that the photo shows the front of the helm ? ...its hard to tell.
BTW, that unusual sword with the "Ü" shaped pommel......the "U " is for resting a musket on !
Thanks again !
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
|
|
|
|
|
Sean Flynt
|
| Posted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Merv Cannon wrote: |
Hey thanks Sean.....thats most cool ! And, in fact I remember viewing the page some time ago and got so absorbed by the shots of items ...I cant remember what happened ...I got interrupted before I got to the Spiderhelm....they are still wierf though.....I assume that the photo shows the front of the helm ? ...its hard to tell.
BTW, that unusual sword with the "Ü" shaped pommel......the "U " is for resting a musket on !
Thanks again ! |
Yes, this is the front of the helmet. IIRC, a photo in the collection catalog shows the piece "cocked" as well.
We wondered if the estoc pommel was related to firearms use, but there are problems with this theory. This weapon is early 16th c., so the U might not be broad enough to accomodate the longarm forestocks of that period (I'll leave that to the firearms experts out there). More importantly, with the point jabbed firmly into the ground the pommel would be somewhere between a standing and kneeling position. I can't imagine that one could use a musket of that period in a crouching position. So, who knows? Maybe it's just decorative.
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hello all!
Merv,
This is what is says about spider helmets in George Cameron Stone's A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times
| George Cameron Stone wrote: |
Spider Helmet- An open helmet of the 17th century surrounded by hinged bars that can be turned up to rest against the crown or down to protect the face and sides of the head. |
He shows a photo on the next page. Unfortunately, I am unable to scan and post it. Here's the caption from the photo:
| George Cameron Stone wrote: |
Spider Helmet, French, 17th century. The hanging bars are hinged and can be folded back over the crown. Metropolitan Museum. |
Sorry if you already had the information regarding time, place, and function. I'll dig through my books and see what else I can come up with! Maybe someone else could post the picture from Stone's glossary.
Hope this helped a bit!
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello again!
I've found a bit more information regarding the "spider helmet" in Arms and Armor: the Cleveland Museum of Art by Stephen N. Fliegel. The book shows two views of a 17th century French cavalry "spider helmet", one with the "legs" raised, and one with the "legs" lowered. The caption claims the "legs" protected the mounted soldier's face and head from slashing sword blows. These definitely seem to be considered cavalry helmets.
Again, sorry I can't post the photo. I have a very annoying scanner that only takes single documents. Maybe someone else could find it and post it, knowing where to look.
I hope this information was at least slightly useful!
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
Merv Cannon
|
| Posted: Tue 24 Oct, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Spider Helm |
|
|
Thanks heaps..........thats great info...........I didnt know that they were hinged....certinally never seen a pic of one with the spider-legs up ! .........theres not much info about for so very many items......I could make quite a list of missing data !
Thanks !
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
|
|
|
|
|
Richard Fay
|
| Posted: Wed 25 Oct, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Merv,
I'm glad my information was helpful!
Now, if someone else could post some pictures...
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
|
|
|
|
|
Randall Moffett
|
| Posted: Fri 27 Oct, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
They also have a very nice one at the castle museum york. It is interesting that some of the legs on the one i worked with moved while some (the back) were stationary. I will look for pictures.
Randall
|
|
|
|
|
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
|
|
 |
|
Jean Thibodeau
|
| Posted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Would these be worn as shown or maybe under a hat as a type of " secrete " from the French for secret or concealed.
The spidery arms / legs ? seem as they would fold up over the helmet and the whole thing would be well hidden.
Just take of the hat and the little metal bars fall into place giving extra slash protection to the lower face and neck all around the head.
As stand alone helms it sort of looks " UGLY " to me and a more conventional Burgonet or Lobstertail helm would at least look better.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
|
|
|
|
|
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
|
|
|
|
|
Merv Cannon
|
| Posted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: Spider -Helm |
|
|
Thank you very much Nathan ! In my 5-6 years of web research-surfing this is the first non postage stamp sized decent spider helm shot that Ive seen !
And , Jean, Im sitting here smiling cause my over active imagination is picturing this Spider-helmeted dude riding all over the countryside with his spider legs tucked up under his hat and scaring the heck out of all the ladies every time he tips his hat when the legs fall down.......poor suckers prob. wondered why they never got a date !!  
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
|
|
|
|
|
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
|
| Posted: Tue 31 Oct, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Spider -Helm |
|
|
| Merv Cannon wrote: | | Thank you very much Nathan ! In my 5-6 years of web research-surfing this is the first non postage stamp sized decent spider helm shot that Ive seen ! |
Case in point why the 'net is one of the worst source of info for this subject. It's probably surprising that I'd say that, of all people, but it's true.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
|
|
|
|
|
Merv Cannon
|
| Posted: Wed 01 Nov, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Spider -Helm |
|
|
| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | Merv Cannon wrote: | | Thank you very much Nathan ! In my 5-6 years of web research-surfing this is the first non postage stamp sized decent spider helm shot that Ive seen ! |
Case in point why the 'net is one of the worst source of info for this subject. It's probably surprising that I'd say that, of all people, but it's true. |
Hi Nathan, I guess it does suprise me a little, but also I've been in a rather unusual position over the last 5-6 years where Ive been able to research almost every day for hours. Since I got back from working in central China two years ago ( and now I have ADSL broadband) ....I have made new data files which are now well over 8 Gb. which are fairly heavy in the arms and armour area. Having recently downloaded a graphic of a German medieval city which was, albeit in sections,. a grand total of somewhere round 14,500 pixels x 11,500 pixels Im not gonna complain ! But on the other hand there are some awful big gaps in the panorama of historical research. I think though that these gaps are mabye in printed material as well on a far lesser degree......eg. Irish Arms and Armour ( from ANY period ! ) ..thank goodness for Niall Murrays site !
Most of it tends to be stuck in some obscure Irish Journals which used to be available but now are not !
Anyway, Im waffeling ! Spider helm shots are rare ! So are Viking saddles, etc, etc, etc. And who amonst us can afford all the books ....most of the best ones are now out of print anyway ! Just check the prices at Amazon ! 
Cheers !
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic
