[Vincent Le Chevalier]

[R Smith]

Strikes from above in I.33 generally end in longpoint where you are ready for a quick thrust and where you have done a substantial amount of damage to the target area of the junction of head and body. This is also true in Ringeck and friends where a zornhau (downward strike from the right or left shoulder) ends in a position where a "zornort" or wrathful point (thrust to the face) can be used. This also leaves you in a position where you are still in control and not just responding to the next attack from your opponent (unless he is already "dead" ). First strikes rarely end the fight unless someone messes up big time.
With that being said a strike that lands will probably not incapacitate an opponent straight away. Even with his head half off his sword may continue to move towards your head as the arms have not quite figured out that the fight is over. In this case it is important to be in defensible position without pause or taking a further "fencing time" to get there.

[Jeremy V. Krause]

What kind of shield would have been used with the Tritonia? I am thinking since it is a war sword some kind of heater or maybe a proto-heater with a rounded top. I would like to see more cutting done with a shield in hand. This is something I would do if I had any outside area.
Thanks,
Jeremy

added- I had to repair some typos- man I wish spell check worked for me when posting- folks probably think I'm in High School or something!

[Greg Griggs]

Good question, Jeremy. On a personal level, I feel that cutting exercises are completely different than doing things like I.33 forms. Believe me, if someone has never used a large, heavy, one-handed sword like the Tritonia to cut with, or even practice forms with, they can't experience how a predominately calvary based weapon reacts in the swing. These swords were made for carry-through as you rode amongst the enemy's ranks, and not for standing toe to toe. On the other hand, I am going to make an early-to-mid 13th C. flat top shield such as those shown being used by Templars and hospitallers, so that I can see what it would be like using sword(St. Maurice in my case) and shield together. Should be an interesting exercise, especially for an old man like myself, HA!

[Jean Thibodeau]

Hmmmmmm: What feels nice and natural recovery doing figure eights with a sword may be giving an opponent really big
openings to take advantage of ? I say this with only superficial knowledge of actual use of sword or sword & shield.

I think I arrived at thinking that fluid transitions or redirecting momentum from " movie " Kung Fu soft forms that at least seem to redirect force " vectors " rather than hard stops. The problem with this is that after some reading and watching movies of real sparring with longswords is that I was totally unaware of all the easy ways a good swordsman would take advantage of wide arcs of motion leaving one exposed with no good and fast counter move.

Now, I don't know much more but I can see where the effective transitions from ward to ward are very economical in the range of movement i.e. Wide sweeping moves are usually not a good idea and should only be used for a 100% committed well timed attack.

Wide sweeping move may give more power to a cut I would guess, but are bad sword fighting if used habitually.

At least this is how I interpret the last few posts as I try to arrive at some valid theory.

[Nate C.]

I was under the impression that the Tritonia (and the SOSMT) were primarily Cavalry swords. This makes the recovery a little less important correct?

Cheers,

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Max von Bargen]

Most swords from the earlier periods probably would have been cavalry swords, since in Western Europe at least the only group as a whole that could usually afford swords would be knights.

When mounted, the recovery would probably be a little less important, but I would think that a knight would have to fight on foot frequently, for reasons that might not necessarily have been under his control. If he got unhorsed, or if his horse was injured on the day of battle, or if he got attacked on the streets, he might need to use a cavalry sword dismounted. Now it's possible that someone might have another, lighter sword for dismounted combat, and use that instead. That said, from the (albeit limited) sources I've read, they indicate that in combat, huge flurries of blows were not used very frequently if at all. The warriors would maneuver and try to obtain an opportunity for a single powerful killing or at least incapacitating blow. I might be wrong about this, but I think that the flurries of blows would be good for fun, but not great for accurate fighting.

Very nice sword, Alexi! I'd agree that the pictures on the website don't do the sword justice. For some reason, I find that true with several of their swords. I know that when I got my first Albion, even though I'd spent a considerable period of time examining the pictures of the sword, it ended up surprising me in many ways.

[Geoff Wood]

[Eric McHugh]

I LOVE the Tritonia. I own one...it's in my office near my drafting table...

I remember the day very clearly...it was fall 2002. Peter was arriving for his second visit. We went to the pub and threw down a burger and beers then we walked to Albion to unpack Peter's box of prototypes. It was the first three museum line swords: The Solingen, Brescia, and Tritonia. When we pulled the Tritonia out of the box, I remember thinking, "hmmm, I don't know if I like that sword!" Howy agreed. It is such a strange looking sword - almost something a fantasy artist would paint for a softcover book. We put it away. I fully intended to not give it another thought, but as it sat up in Howy's office, it began to call to me. It's brutish lines and somewhat clunky appearance began to soften and take on an almost graceful form. Another week passed, and I could not walk in the room without holding it. It was during week three that I gave over completely to its call, and now I own one. It is a beautiful sword, but more importantly it is awe inspiring!!!

The Tritonia is not for the faint of heart. It is not a fencing weapon, nor is it very agile. When one compares it to the Knight as far as speed and agility, there is no comparison: the Knight is much faster. BUT the Tritonia can deliver a cut that is almost unprecedented. The damage this blade can cause is horrific!!! It is hard to visualize from the pictures just how brutal this sword really is. In short, it is sublime!!!

It is a calvary sword. Its sole purpose is to allow a mounted knight to remove large pieces of some unfortunate foot-soldier. I've had the pleasure of seeing the original along side of Peter Johnsson's recreation. The original is very corroded, but even in its rusted condition, it is an impressive sword.

Well these are just some rambling from a member of the Tritonia Owner's Club (TOC). :-)

[Patrick Kelly]

[Patrick Kelly]

[R Smith]

I was not referring to the sword play of Silver, but rather the four governers/true times i.e. the time of the hand is faster then the time of the arm; the time of the arm is faster then the time of the body; the time of the body is faster then the time of the foot. These are merely biomechanically sound principles that were outlined quite well by Silver but were certainly mentioned by others both before and after him.
On horseback I imagine it is a completely different set of rules but I would also think that over committment to a strike would yield a lost sword or a cut up horse with a straight blade especially.
So effective blows yielding good defence at the same time would be important across the board.

[Patrick Kelly]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Chad Arnow]

[Bob Burns]

In my statement of letting one cut flow into the next cut, I was of course referring only to recreation cutting of jugs, etc.

In any martial art, armed or unarmed, whenever a strike has been made at that given second the striker is open to some extent and one would always want to keep their guard between themself and the opponent, whether it is a sword, fists, bo, or whatever. The second one forgets about their defense up against an accomplished opponent, they are going to find themselve's in a very unhappy situation.

I know the principles from my other endeavor but I do not "know" swordplay as I have never formally trained under anyone. Well, I know enough to get myself killed!

Bob

[Jean Thibodeau]

The first thing I have to rip out of my brains are concepts that are vices in a real fight and are virtues in film or stage fighting: It's rare that a film fight doesn't involve an extended amount flailing away to make the fight seem more exciting or stretch out the scene to long minutes.

The few fights that seemed very fast, subtle and economical in movement that I remember are some of the fights in good
Samurai films staring Toshiro Mifune like " The 7 Samurai " as an example: The extremely fast and brief instant kills have a dramatic effect all their own, sometimes much more jaw dropping impressive than the long never ending sword fights in the
" Pirates of the Caribbean " films. ( Those are fun in a different way. )

If I want speed as well as scary sharp and pointy or for more of a defensive side arm when not in battle or in armour I would favour my Sovereign as a side sword for civilian wear.

I don't find the Tritonia particularly ponderous personally but the style of fighting would mean having to depend on timing and the use of the shield or mobility during recovery rather than using the sword parrying defensively.

[Craig Peters]

[Patrick Kelly]

Craig,

Agreed and a good citation. However, let me again emphasize exactly what I'm talking about so that we don't wind up with this horse chasing its own tail in an endless circle. Your citation is a good example of a general principle of swordsmanship. My experience with combative arts has been that they all share basic principles of movement , distance, timing, etc. Whether it be unarmed combat, swordsmanship, pistolcraft, CQB, whatever. These basic fundamentals apply to all of them. In that we are all in agreement. However, I'm not talking about general principles.

When I speak of the attempt to avoid misunderstanding these weapons through the need for further experimentation I'm talking about the finer points of their use. Example: I'm using sword A that weighs less than two pounds. I'm taught that the proper technique with single-handed sword A, in a downward strike, is to stop the swords motion at point X. I then begin using single-handed sword B that weighs in excess of three pounds. Given that objects in motion remain in motion dependent upon their mass, is it reasonable and/or accurate to expect me to stop sword B at point X, or because of the swords greater weight and mass, is it proper and correct to stop Sword B at point Y? Consequently, when we examine a photo of Alexi using the Tritonia are we correct in saying that he should halt the swords movement at a specific point, based on an assumption of what we know of other sword types, or do we need to do further study to determine the specfic handling characteristics of the type and thereby determine what is correct for it?

In regards to the Tritonia being used with a shield: In the era of its use the shield was still in widespread use as a battlefield implement. Whether ahorse or afoot a man would have used it with a shield.