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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Dec, 2006 4:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Guilherme Dias Ferreira S wrote:
In a fight between a fully armoured knight with a mace and another fully armoured knight with a sword, probably the first would win. Against unarmoured opponents, it's obvious that a mace is a less lethal weapon than a sword. But, you know, the mace concentrate the almost of the all kinetic energy of the movement in one spot, allowing the mace to crush the armour. So, when the knight knew that he would fight with a fully armoured enemy, he would choose a mace rather than a sword. It's not casually that many photos of the gothic knight (many regard them as the ultimate knights) show them holding a mace. Example: www.arador.com/gallery/15c-3.jpg
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This only works in single combat, though. In a battle the knight with more friends (or better-organized and better-commanded friends) would win. And of course, a man-at-arms couldn't always choose what kind of opponent he was going to fight.
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Hisham Gaballa





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PostPosted: Sat 23 Dec, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's worth remembering that by the late 14th century only a small minority of men-at-arms (i.e. heavily armoured warriors trained to fight on horseback) were actually "knights" in the sense of having gone through a knighting ceremony etc. Most men-at-arms were esquires or of even lower status. So by this time at least ideas of what was a knightly weapon are probably irrelevant anyway, so men-at-arms would have used maces.
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Dec, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Howard,
with regard to the good bishop, have you ever come across the mention that men of the cloth were not allowed by the Church to wield the sword, hence the use of the mace by the bishop ?
Jean-Carle

Bon coeur et bon bras
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David Welch




Location: Knoxville TN
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Dec, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like to play around with maces, axes, hammers and the like, and I like to think the above seem to be very knightly weapons.

The mass weapons are very hard to use defensively, and rely on an almost total offensive posture. You are always looking for the vorschlag when you use them. I think that would have made them seem the choice of a brave man. Also, many of the maces in museums are well made and highly decorated. Obviously, they were not the weapons of peasants.

And look at the Kings and heroes that used the mass weapons. Robert the Bruce (axe) and the Hungarian king Stephen the Great (mace) as examples.


“God grant a beard were on thy face, and strength thine arm within,
To fling a spear, or swing a mace, like Roland Paladin!

"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4BC-65AD
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Dec, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean-Carle Hudon wrote:
Howard,
with regard to the good bishop, have you ever come across the mention that men of the cloth were not allowed by the Church to wield the sword, hence the use of the mace by the bishop ?

Yep. It is complete bollocks. Odo personally shed buckets of blood from his suppression of the revolts in England while William was on the Continent. He is also responsible for looting and destroying several churches and monasteries - hardly the actions of a man who was concerned about alleged theological injunctions.

This has been discussed on an earlier thread.
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=5393

I would be interested in an example of someone who was smacked in the head with a mace and didn't shed any blood. This whole theory is Victorian nonsense.
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Dec, 2006 3:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've put this forth previously, in other threads, but never the less;
There are two kinds of maces; the long hafted ones, with metal heads and wooden shafts, as seen in up until the high middle ages, and the short, all metal ones of the late middle ages.

The long hafted maces would be used against lightly or unarmoured foes, dealing hard blows to the head; The usage would be akin to a sword or axe. (though, most likely, the axe would be heavier due to the relatively small amount of metal in this kind of mace head...)

The short, all metal mace would be used for close combat; against a heavily armoured foe, individual blows would be less likely to decisive. Thus, the late mace is made for rapid attacks; Move into close combat, push/grapple through the defences, and hit him in the head until he falls over.
This also works for mounted combat, where the ability to manoeuvre is limited.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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