[Dan Howard]

I've been reading Cohen's translation of Diaz's "Conquest of New Spain" again and came upon Cortez's orders to his strikeforce just before the siege of Mexico (p. 354). The men are ordered to wear: "very good armor, well quilted, and a gorget, helmet, leggings, and a shield." My query is regarding the word "leggings". Is he referring to regular clothes or is he referring to mail armour? Does anyone have the original text? What is the term used in the original passage?

Another related question. I can't remember which source claims that the Spanish were impressed with the effectiveness of the native padded armor and adopted it themselves.

[J.T. Aliaga]

Arms and Armor in Colonial America by H Peterson has a few paragraphs on the Spaniards use of the ichcahuipilli or escaupiles.

[Johann M]

I recently did some research on Spanish armour in the new world for my MA dissertation, to that end I've read most of the translated editions of Diaz's "Conquest of New Spain". I have no memory (and I checked my notes) of any references to mail lower limb armour, so I would be inclined to suspect he was referring to cloth leggings/hose.

[Jean-Carle Hudon]

Ususally, in an enumeration of similar objects, one can assume that the object described shares some of the characteristic of the other objects in the list. It's not the best evidence, but it makes more sense, and is therefore more probable than not.
That does not go so far as to establish the leggings as mail leggings, they could be quilted, anything that would help against the slash of the obsidian weapons used. So I would agree that the leggings are in the list as offering some kind of protection,like all the other objects in the list, but have no idea as to the material that the writer had in mind.

[Dan Howard]

Found a little more. It seems that it was de Soto's expedition that commented on the impressiveness of the ichcahuipilli. None of the texts actually state that the Spanish decided to replace their own armour with native armour. It was later commentators who came to this conclusion. It is clear that the Spanish did no such thing. Throughout the entire de Soto expedition in all of the accounts there are many examples of these soldiers wearing mail, plate, and brigandines. Cortez is different. Most of his men were wearing padded armour before they even landed in America.

[Dan Howard]

[Dan Howard]

Apologies for the thread resurrection. I'm still looking for the original Spanish terms used by Diaz in the following sentences:

"very good armor, well quilted, and a gorget, helmet, leggings, and a shield."

"we never took off our armour, gorgets or leggings by night or by day."

[Jean Henri Chandler]

No help on the word you are looking for but I just wanted to chime in, Conquest of New Spain is one of my favorite books. An amazing read.

J

[José-Manuel Benito]

I think that the sentence in Spanish is:

[Dan Howard]

Wonderful. Many thanks. Does he use papahigo elsewhere in the book or does he use a different word for helmet?

Another one: I've been reading a translation of El Cid and came across the following sentences.

"...he wiped the blood away with the sleeve of his mail"
"...and delivered such blows that their helmets were cut away and the sleeves of the mail"
"...the sleeves of his mail were clotted with blood up to the elbow"

I was wondering what the original Spanish for "mail sleeves" was in this book and whether there is a difference between modern Spanish and medieval Spanish.

[Mart Shearer]

Dan, got some line numbers? IIRC the preferred term in the Cantar de Mio Cid is lorigas, and not anything more specific, but it might be easier to find knowing where to look.

Seems to be braço con loriga is as precise as there is.
http://mgarci.aas.duke.edu/cgi-bin/celestina/...broId=1002

Tanto braço con loriga veriedes caer aparte,
Tantas cabeças con yelmos que por el campo campo caen,

Tanta adagara foradar y pasar,
Tanta loriga falsa desmanchar
Tantos pendones blancos salir bermejos en sangre,

Los dos le fallen y el uno le ha tomado;
Por la loriga ayuso la sangre destellado.
Volvio la rienda por irsele del campo;

[Dan Howard]

From the Robert Southey translation: http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/8491/pg8491.txt

III.6. When Pedrarias heard this, grievously wounded as he was, he wiped the blood away with the sleeve of his mail and went fiercely against him.

III.7. Then laid their hands on their good swords, and delivered such blows that their helmets were cut away, and the sleeves of the mail.

VI.29. And so great was the mortality which he made among the Moors that day, that when he returned from the business the sleeves of his mail were clotted with blood up to the elbow.

VIII.8 my Cid's people drove King Bucar's through their camp and many an arm with its sleeve-mail was lopped off, and many a head with its helmet fell to the ground.

X.15 And he gave him a sword which had the device of the Soldan wrought in gold, and a coat of mail and sleeve armour, and a noble guipon which was wrought of knots.

[Mart Shearer]

Editing as you were posting. Sorry for the confusion.

[Michael Curl]

What exactly did de soto say about the ichahupilii?

[José-Manuel Benito]

[José-Manuel Benito]

[Ian Hutchison]

[Lafayette C Curtis]

In that case, could it mean tassets? It would seem to be the most intuitive translation considering the design of early 16th-century munitions-grade armour, although it might not be such a good match if the cuirasses are made of padded cloth rather than plate.

[José-Manuel Benito]

[Dan Howard]

A steel cuirass weighs less than a padded jack.
Armour worn on the torso is no more stifling in hot weather than regular clothing and the level of comfort doesn't change if it is made from metal or cloth or leather.
The most likely reason why the Spanish adopted local cloth armour is because imported metal armour was scarce.