[Allan Senefelder]

I don't know so much but David Edge and Mr. Paddock seem to feel comfortable enough about it to use 16 different paintings and drawings, both portraits and scenes (5 of which feature large numbers of infantry a good number of whom have brigandine on the 6th being an allegorical painting with one of the figures wearing brigandine) in the chapter one the 15th century alone in Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight. They also have a manniquine from the Tower Armouries I believe who is described as "typical" of The Wars of the Rose's period which includes open faced sallet maille gusstes and standard and a brigandine. The Armour Research Society Journal Vol 1 article on The Howard Books (the household accounts of John Howard regarding the purchase and loaning out of weapons and armour for the expeditions of 1463,1468 and 1481) are chuck full o brigandines being bought and loaned out. An Historical Guide To arms & Armor uses 4 pieces of period art work from the 15th century in 8 pages as source material. Charles Ffoulkes uses art as source material throughout The Armourer And His Craft . I fact as i'm plowing through my library after original pieces of armour art from the period is the most common source material use. Why is the acedemic and curratorial world so ready to site these as source material do you think James?

[Chuck Russell]

dude chill. ure messeges are coming off a tad hostile.


we also have ref's to cities handing out jacks, sallets and bows. and as one of the collaberaters of the sources you posted says, you can't go by art alone, its bad research. (bob reed)

[Chad Arnow]

[Allan Senefelder]

Chuck it was a legitimate question. Why do the acedemic and curratorial worlds( David Edge being the currator of the Wallace Collection) site period art as sources so much in dealing with the subject of arms and armour? I didn't advance the idea that art is not a valid source another poster did so I was looking for his thoughts on why he thinks this is so. His view point is as valid as anybodys and i'm just asking whats his thoughts are based on his view point. Theres no need for a response now however as Chads right this has gotten off topic.

[Dan Howard]

Period artwork can be used as supporting evidence to build a case so long as documentation and archaeological evidence is used also. As already said, relying solely on artwork is "bad research".

Regarding leather, there are a few examples of leather covered brigandines but it is only decoration. Just like silk, velvet, cloth of gold, etc. The foundation (the layer providing the structural support) is still textile - usually canvas.

[Michal Plezia]

[James Barker]

Hi Allan

You seem to prove my point about art vs. documents, in the cases you sited they start with Howard’s writings on how popular an item was and use extent examples and art to recreate one. Without art we could never recreate the clothing of the middle to late 15th century, there are only a few extent pieces and they are not the basics. But it is writings that tell me what colors are appropriate for a person of a certain station, what materials are more common, even what variations are popular when. Art gives a great visual reference, unfortunately it is not the be all end all of research.

Also I did not say the argument was if brigandines existed, they were super popular starting in the second half of the 15th century, the argument among scholars and reenactors is if the art work shows a brigandine with a placard or a cloth covered solid breastplate with decorative rivets and a placard. Unfortunately no brigandine examples give us hard evidence of having a placard over them as far as I have read.

As Dan said:

"Period artwork can be used as supporting evidence to build a case so long as documentation and archaeological evidence is used also"

[Allan Senefelder]

James, second paragraph clears it up, I misunderstood what you were saying several posts back. Thanks for the clarification.

[Michal Plezia]

Hello!

I am on my final stages of producing brigandine.

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/1880/p8160043ob0.jpg only some shoulders and belt plates and one stripe is still missing

I wonder -is it possible to wash it somehow?(it has outer-and inner layers of linen)Some of you guys have your own brigandines.How do you keep them clean?

[Brian St.Hilaire]

Does anybody have any opinions or experience about Steel Armory's brigandine?

http://steel-mastery.com/index.php?&model...uct_id=163

They also have a web store on ebay.

[Dan Howard]

[Dan Howard]

[Steve Grisetti]

[Michal Plezia]

[Michal Plezia]

I've found a picture from the earlier stage of production-there are some plates visible.As soon as I finish it I'll post more pictures showing brigandine from all sides.

[Dustin R. Reagan]

[Randall Moffett]

I think artwork has many limitations. I would think it occuring often in artwork a possible indication of it being common but not conclusive. I'd rely on written accounts to determine if something is common as you have more detail in numbers and their relation to reality is clear while art is not always so. Also The arms and armour of the medieval knight is a very general study on the subject, while a good read it has a number of limitations and is too broad in many cases.

RPM

[Troy G L Williams]

You could send a PM to Oleg Yanchuck. Here is a member here. I believe he may be able to create something to your liking. I believe that period is something he normally works with. He's working on some 14th century armor for myself.

[Troy G L Williams]

Sorry I guess I should have read the threads closer. I didn't realize you made your own. Congrats.

[Gary A. Chelette]