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Ken Demyen
Location: Lancaster, CA Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 36
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 Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 9:22 am Post subject: First "real" purchase question |
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I am trying to make my first purchase of a "real" sword, as I'm getting tired of looking at my room full of wall hangers. I have been shopping around for sometime now, and I seem to be more confused now than when I started. With the added expense of purchasing a good sword I want to be sure to get what I want and make it a good experience (so I can justify it to my wife if nothing else). So far from reading other posts the Atrim 1415 seems to be a good basic longsword, and it has the look that I like. Any guidance, or advice on the matter of buying my first (non-wallhanger) sword would be greatly appreciated.
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Brian M
Location: Austin, TX Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 500
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Depends on the money you are willing to spend and your aesthetic requirements. Another possibility is Albion's "1st Generation," as well as Del Tin Swords for around $450. For substantially more money (around $600+) Albions "Next Generation," and Arms& Armour's products are a step up in aesthetics.
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Ken Demyen
Location: Lancaster, CA Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 10:27 am Post subject: |
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What I am looking for like is a basic functional sword, rugged with good construction , one that you could tell people "this is what the soldiers would carry into battle".
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Again, if you gave us your price range, we could probably advise you better.
The AT1415 is $425.00 I believe. For a really good all around longsword/grete sword for the same price, I recommend the AT1313, a type XIIa. It is a great all around sword and will thrust a little better than the XIIIa you mentioned. The AT1313 is very maneauverable, but still has a lot of authority.
For around a hundred dollars less, you might look at one ot the Albion Del Tins, specifically ADT5143 -- http://www.albionarmorers.com/swords/adt/albiondeltin.htm - - Albion has put a much stronger hilt on certain Del Tin models. The ADT5143 would be a good first real sword. Its drawback -- maybe 3/4 of a pound heavier than the original would have been.
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Ken Demyen
Location: Lancaster, CA Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 11:11 am Post subject: |
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The $350-450 price range is about right....any more and my wife wight use the sword on me!
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Ken Demyen
Location: Lancaster, CA Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | For around a hundred dollars less, you might look at one ot the Albion Del Tins, specifically ADT5143 -- |
Thanks for the advice.
The 5143 is a nice looking sword.
Why are the Del Tin's $100 cheaper? Is it a quality issue? Or just the finishing?
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | | Its drawback -- maybe 3/4 of a pound heavier than the original would have been. |
Where did you get this figure?
Here's the stats for the Del Tin as Albion lists them:
Overall length 49"
Blade length: 39"
Blade width: 2" at guard, .75" at 1" from point
PoB: 6"
CoP: 36"
Grip length: 7.5"
Weight: 3 lbs. 11 oz.
Here are the stats for the AT 1423 from All Saints:
Total Length: 46"
Blade Length 37"
Blade Width; Base: 2"
PoB; from hand: 8 1/2"
CoP; from cross: 24"
Handle Length: 7"
Weight: 3 lbs 8oz
The DT5143 is 3 ounces heavier than a sword by Gus that is three inches shorter. The blade of the DT is longer and the handle is too. I think that if you added some length to the AT so it was as long as the DT, it would probably fall within an ounce or so of the Del Tin.
Not all Del Tin's are grossly overweight.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Mike Fletcher
Location: Auburn, CA USA Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Ken Demyen wrote: | | The $350-450 price range is about right....any more and my wife wight use the sword on me! |
Hi Ken,
There is also a Crecy Grete Swerde on the SFI classifieds for $450.
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27812
More info on this particular sword can be found by searching this forum as well as SFI, and at Albion's website:
http://www.albionarmorers.com/swords/albion/medieval/crecy.htm
Good luck trying to decide what to get for your first sword. There are so many good choices out there these days that it can be a little daunting. Just remember - your first sword WILL NOT be your last!
Regards,
Mike
EDIT: The Crecy on the SFI classifieds has been traded and is no longer available.
Last edited by Mike Fletcher on Tue 16 Dec, 2003 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 11:40 am Post subject: Re: First "real" purchase question |
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| Ken Demyen wrote: | | I am trying to make my first purchase of a "real" sword, as I'm getting tired of looking at my room full of wall hangers. I have been shopping around for sometime now, and I seem to be more confused now than when I started. With the added expense of purchasing a good sword I want to be sure to get what I want and make it a good experience (so I can justify it to my wife if nothing else). So far from reading other posts the Atrim 1415 seems to be a good basic longsword, and it has the look that I like. Any guidance, or advice on the matter of buying my first (non-wallhanger) sword would be greatly appreciated. |
Hi Ken
Well, I've got a 1415 that I like a lot, but it does look a little different, particularly around the point (mines a bit pointier), from the one currently shown on the All Saints site. All the specs appear similar though. It handles easily with one or two hands, and cuts well, and you now get a wrapped handle (mine had the old plain wood version). Still, there's lots of other good things about. Comes down to personal taste.
Geoff
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Sean Flynt
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | Again, if you gave us your price range, we could probably advise you better.
The AT1415 is $425.00 I believe. For a really good all around longsword/grete sword for the same price, I recommend the AT1313, a type XIIa. It is a great all around sword and will thrust a little better than the XIIIa you mentioned. The AT1313 is very maneauverable, but still has a lot of authority.
For around a hundred dollars less, you might look at one ot the Albion Del Tins, specifically ADT5143 -- http://www.albionarmorers.com/swords/adt/albiondeltin.htm - - Albion has put a much stronger hilt on certain Del Tin models. The ADT5143 would be a good first real sword. Its drawback -- maybe 3/4 of a pound heavier than the original would have been. |
Actually, the AT1415 is a XIIa, if its still on AllSaints listed as a XIIIa, its mismarked.
As a maker that handles, and uses both swords at times, I prefer the AT1415 slightly. It cuts well, it thrusts well, and the overall handling is like a cut and thrust longsword. I like the greater length {even though we're only talking an inch}, and the "character" of the handling....
The AT1313 is more robust though, and would handle the helmet on a pole test. The AT1415 is marginal for that kind of use. She {the 1313} tracks well, and cuts well, but the distal taper is done such that its a bit thin towards the tip, and where a good thrusting sword thru soft stuff, doesn't much care for thrusting thru a lot of resistance....
For someone though, that might like a complete package, Josh just took in the first Albion Crecy in trade, sword and scabbard. He intends to sell it on the specials page.....
I've seen it, both when brand new, and just a week ago. Its in very nice condition........ The very first Albion Crecy sold, along with its very own Eric McHugh scabbard.........
swords are fun
Last edited by Angus Trim on Tue 16 Dec, 2003 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Hi Chad
I believe Roger was referring to the lesser weight of what an historical original might have weighed , not a comparison between the 2 reproductions !
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomas McDonald wrote: | Hi Chad
I believe Roger was referring to the lesser weight of what an historical original might have weighed , not a comparison between the 2 reproductions !
Mac |
Heya Mac
Good to see ya!
Chad's right on this one though. Oakeshott mentions that the XIIIa's averaged between 3.5 and 4lbs, and the DT is still under 4lbs.........
Auld Dawg
swords are fun
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomas McDonald wrote: | Hi Chad
I believe Roger was referring to the lesser weight of what an historical original might have weighed , not a comparison between the 2 reproductions !
Mac |
Mac,
I was just curious if Roger knew the weight of the original that the DT5143 is based on, or if he was passing on the commonly held perception that DT's are overweight. My opinion has always been that some DT's are grossly overweight, some are slightly portly, and some are pretty spot on in terms of weight.
The comparison was only to show that there are other well-balanced swords of the same type and similar proportions that are similar in weight to the Del Tin. Keep in mind that I was not comparing the performance of the two, just weight and measurements.
As Gus indicated, the 5143 is not too heavy for it's type and intended usage.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: |
Where did you get this figure?
The DT5143 is 3 ounces heavier than a sword by Gus that is three inches shorter. The blade of the DT is longer and the handle is too. I think that if you added some length to the AT so it was as long as the DT, it would probably fall within an ounce or so of the Del Tin.
Not all Del Tin's are grossly overweight. |
Well, you've got a point, and maybe I should consider my hand to be slapped. With the AT1423, you did pick what may be Gus' heaviest sword to compare to the Del Tin. The other XIIIa, the AT1415 weighs 2 lbs, 10 oz. And I never said that Del Tins were grossly overweight. Just a touch overweight.
But I would hypothesize that the AT1423 feels a lot lighter than the DT5143. AFAIK, Del Tin swords that do have distal taper start it about half way down the blade while ATrims start tapering right below the guard.
Edit - there have been a number of posts since I started to write this reply -- if the AT1415 is a XIIa, then it isn't a good comparison to DT5143. No, I don't know which sword the DT5143 is based on (please tell me). My remark was based on that old "commonly held belief" - I do have a number of Del Tins, and they do have a heavier feel to me than similar swords by other makers.
And I do own an AT1313, and believe that you can't go wrong with that sword.
Last edited by Roger Hooper on Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Heya Mac
Good to see ya!
Chad's right on this one though. Oakeshott mentions that the XIIIa's averaged between 3.5 and 4lbs, and the DT is still under 4lbs.........
Auld Dawg |
Hi Gus
Cool .....
I guess If they'd had a basket-hilt on one end I'd have known that *g*
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | Well, you've got a point, and maybe I should consider my hand to be slapped. With the AT1423, you did pick what may be Gus' heaviest sword to compare to the Del Tin. The other XIIIa, the AT1415 weighs 2 lbs, 10 oz. And I never said that Del Tins were grossly overweight. Just a touch overweight.
But I would hypothesize that the AT1423 feels a lot lighter than the DT5143. AFAIK, Del Tin swords that do have distal taper start it about half way down the blade while ATrims start tapering right below the guard. |
No hand slapping was intended. Implying that the 5143 was 3/4 of a pound over the weight of the original does seem like grossly overweight, though, to some readers.
And yes, I did pick Gus's heaviest sword, but just to make a point. Del Tin's are not as bad as some people think. They're also not as great as some people think. They're not all as overweight as they've been made to seem by some folks out there. I have a soft spot for Del Tin, as they are the majority of collection and also the first good quality swords I ever bought.
Notice I never spoke about handling in my posts. I'm not so stupid to think that the Del Tin will outperform an AT. But some are good swords.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Ken Demyen
Location: Lancaster, CA Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Good luck trying to decide what to get for your first sword. There are so many good choices out there these days that it can be a little daunting. Just remember - your first sword WILL NOT be your last! |
That seems to be an underestatement. My first sword was a Cavalry sabre (made in India of course) I bought at a swap meet for $15 over 20 years ago, now I have a closet full of wall hangers, the pinacle was... dare I say the "F" word, the Franklin Mint Sword of Charlamagne. But its time to switch from quantity to quality.
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James Byrnes
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 1:43 pm Post subject: 1562 |
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Might I suggest the 1562 from AllSaints. For a first sword, in my personal opinion, I do not believe that you could do better in that price range. The handling is spot on, the sword tracks very nicely in the thrust(especially for a type generally regarded as a cutting blade) and it cuts with authority. The 8 inch grip and the 37 inch blade give a good representation of how a longsword should feel, and lends itself admirably to Kunst des Fechten.
James
"Farewell sweet friend, I was a thousand times more evil than thou. "
Rocky Mountain Historical Combat Guild
All Saints Blades
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Ken Demyen
Location: Lancaster, CA Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue 16 Dec, 2003 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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So far it is between the AT1415, and the AT1562
It says that swapping pommels is not available, but if I asked real nice do you think I could get the 1415 with a stopper pommel?
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