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Alexander Hinman




Location: washington, dc
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Russian Armour         Reply with quote

This being my first post, let me start out by saying that I have oft times turned to this site and these forums for answering the various questions outside the scope of my knowledge, so I admire all of you here for your knowledge...

Now, on to my question.

Being a Russophile as I am, I have been unable to find any company that produces any Russian-style armour. Yes, alot of what they wore was maille, but they were rather unique with some of it. Specifically I'm looking for armour that was basically maille with plates woven into the links, which was called a kolontar'.

Scale armour was also worn, but I haven't been able to come up with any makers of that, either.

Basic images of the armours: Scale: http://www.svitok.boom.ru/rdivm/images/dospehi2.jpg and kolontar' http://www.svitok.boom.ru/rdivm/images/kolontar.jpg

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005 10:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's expensive, but probably the best way to get armour of this sort is to custom order it, through a manufacturer like Valentine Armouries. I've never seen Russian armour specifically offered, and my guess is that there's not enough interest in it in general to warrant mass producing it. Therefore, a custom order is most likely the way to go.
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Jason Elrod




Location: Winchester, VA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Oct, 2005 11:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Check out Silk Road Armoury at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505/ . While not exactly what you are looking for, he might be your best bet. Unfortunately the website hasn't been updated since '03 so there's no telling if he's still in business. Just shoot him an e-mail.
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct, 2005 2:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

AFAIK Russian armour is very similar to 15th-16th century Turkish and Iranian armour, i.e. mail-and-plate shirts of various types and krugs. I've never seen anyone who makes Turco-Iranian armour either. I have seen fuzzy pics of a Medieval Russian reenactment group on the net, I've no idea where they got their stuff from.
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Ruel A. Macaraeg





Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 306

PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have Russian armor of the Kievan/Polovetz period (12-13thc), made by a Ukrainian company.

The Dospehi in your link is lamellar, not scale, since it lacks a backing fabric. If you're interested in this kind of armor, you can check out my lamellar in the Marketplace:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=5040

This cuirass is virtually identical to several worn by Muscovite Russian archers and infantry shown in Nicolle and McBride's Armies of Medieval Russia vols. 1&2 and Gorelik's Warriors of Eurasia, worn over a gambeson.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct, 2005 1:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexander;

First welcome to the forum.

You didn't mention Helms !? Here is one made by Mercenary's Taylor that is Russian inspired: Don't know how strictly historically accurate you want your armour to be, but this one is based on Russian styles of helm.

http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...4c32132acd

Having a maille / plate shirt custom made or making it yourself might be a solution.

The learning curve of making your own maille is a factor as well as getting the tools to do it ( Minimal I believe as I haven't done it myself ! ) And lots and lots of patience as it is a very slow process with butted maille and even slower with riveted maille.

One good point for a maille and plate shirt is that every plate takes the place of numerous rings, probably saving some time in the making of the shirt ? Might even be less expensive to have custom made that a custom made shirt of only rings ???

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct, 2005 2:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Alexander;

...One good point for a maille and plate shirt is that every plate takes the place of numerous rings, probably saving some time in the making of the shirt ? Might even be less expensive to have custom made that a custom made shirt of only rings ???


That's a good point. The only slight problem with that is AFAIK Turco-Iranian mail-and-plate armour didn't appear until the late 14th century, I have a feeling that Russian mail-and-plate would have appeared at the same time, in which case the armour wouldn't match the 11th century helmet. I think in the 11th century Russian armour would have been just mail or lamellar.

BTW, if you're looking for more pics of Russian armour, this chap has photographed several items in the Kremlin armouries: Happy
http://jeffmartin.com/Default.aspx?tabid=32&a...7c5%7c1%7c
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Alexander Hinman




Location: washington, dc
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Reading list: 50 books

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hisham Gaballa wrote:

That's a good point. The only slight problem with that is AFAIK Turco-Iranian mail-and-plate armour didn't appear until the late 14th century, I have a feeling that Russian mail-and-plate would have appeared at the same time, in which case the armour wouldn't match the 11th century helmet. I think in the 11th century Russian armour would have been just mail or lamellar.


Thanks plentifully for the pictures...

Well, the bakhterets, which had a series of overlapping plates and is shown here: http://jeffmartin.com/Default.aspx?tabid=32&a...7c0%7c0%7c

... Didn't really appear until the late 15th century, and before then, the combination mail-and-plate armour appeared around the early part of the 14th century, to my knowledge.

Up until then, though, scale and lamellar were used, and a type called a Kuyak, which was basically an inside-out brigandine, with round or rectangular plates in the form of a vest over the hauberk.
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Mon 10 Oct, 2005 2:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You're welcome, there are several pages there of photos from the Kremlin armoury showing various types of armour. Happy

There is a good picture of a Russian bakhterets here:
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/03/hm3_4_1c.html

And I photographed a nearly identical 15th century Turkish armour this summer in the Royal Armouries in Leeds:

I'll see if I have a closer picture of the armour somewhere. There used to be another similar Turkish armour in the Victoria and Albert Museum, sadly they have now closed their armour collection to the public. Going back to RA figure,he is wearing a 15th century Iranian helmet which is very similar to 15th century Russian helmets. Unfortunately the RA has no examples of Russian armour.

Edit:
I found those other pics:


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David Etienne




Location: Ittre, Belgium
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Oct, 2005 1:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

If you are looking for this kind of armour (see other pics here: http://www.1186-583.org/article.php3?id_article=19 ):

maybe you could contact Piotr Vasin (or another member of his group) at this email address: druzhina@mailbox.alkor.ru

This reenactment group has a website, but it's in Russian... http://www.knights.spb.ru/

Cheers,

David



 Attachment: 89.38 KB
piotrvasin.jpg
Piotr Vasin, from the Russian reenactment group "La Druzhina du Prince"
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional



Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,563

PostPosted: Tue 11 Oct, 2005 6:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thats just pretty darn cool right there! Love the maille and plates familly of armours.
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Alexander Hinman




Location: washington, dc
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Reading list: 50 books

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Tue 11 Oct, 2005 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Etienne wrote:
Hi,

If you are looking for this kind of armour (see other pics here: http://www.1186-583.org/article.php3?id_article=19 ):

Cheers,

David


Aye! That's the stuff. Although I wouldn't mind a cuirass of lamellar, that's the kind of armour I'm really after... Now, if only I spoke better Russian.
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