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Daniel Staberg
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Jeremiah Swanger
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 Posted: Wed 08 Jun, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason Dingledine wrote: |
Heya Gordon,
Sorry, but nope, it is not a hollow-ground blade. The cross-section is a rather stiff diamond, with a small flat at the base of the blade. I had a chance to examine Peter's forged blades for his customer during one of his last trips, and it is a great blade. It should prove to be very stiff and pointy........ |
Yep, it does, in fact, look very, as you put it, stiff and pointy.
The fact that it's so narrow leads me to believe that there isn't very much room for the cutting section, though the original is probably better-engineered than one would initially conclude from the photographs alone.
I've loved the lines and proportions of this sword ever since I first saw it in The Sword in the Age of Chivalry, but never much cared for the ornamentation. I'm glad we finally get a "cleaned-up" version of this sword on the market. I have to say it's absolutely gorgeous!
"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."
- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 09 Jun, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | Jason Dingledine wrote: | | Sorry, but nope, it is not a hollow-ground blade. The cross-section is a rather stiff diamond, with a small flat at the base of the blade. |
Strange. I've been told by various people that the original had some hollow-grinding. This must have been incorrect.
Can I get a confirmation that the Albion version will have a blade that is a close aproximation of the original sword's? Or is the Albion version going a different direction? |
Hey Nathan and guys,
The Munich sword has a blade just like Jason described it: a stout diamond shaped blad with a narrrow flat midrib in the upper third. It is a very stiff blade and the whole sword is screaming fast and very precise. To me it has the perfect combination of lightness and powerfull heft. It is a slim C&T sword with very lean lines.
The confusion about hollowgrinding might be caused by this: I have a personal favourite theory that this sword, together with the Sword of Svante Nillson Sture and another famous type XX (having the same pommel as Svante and the same cross as the Munich sword) published in "Records" are all made by the same team of craftsmen. I have no direct proof other than the shared similar hilt components and an overall feel of siblingship between them. I have yet to document the type XX...
The type XX of course has intricate hollowgrinding or fullering. That could be the cause of confusion.
The Munich sword has overall very clean lines. Its proportions and volumes has to be seen in real life to be properly appreciated. There is something about how its hysical presence and size harmonizes with its proportions and feel in an absolutely incredible way. One of the most sublime swords there is.
In the NG version of this sword I intend to duplicate the physical feel, dynamic balance, overall weight and other stats from the original ( nodes, pivot points and all that...). The NG version will have the exact same blade as the future Museum Line sword.
The difference will be that the hilt components will be slightly simplified in some of the beveling and details. There flower shaped rivet block of the original will be replaced by a more simple geometric one. The ends of the guard will be less detailed, but still have an s-shape and beveled arms. The grip will not be decorated with embossing in the leather as on the original (and as on the Museum Line version), nor will there be a leather rain guard.
In short: some corners will be cut to make this version more economical in production, but the function, performance, feel and physical presence of the sword will be the same as the original on display in the Bayerisches Nationalmuseum in Munich. I will strive to make the NG version come as close as possible to elegance of the original despite the simplifications. I want it to emanate as much as possible of the originals commanding princely aura.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Thu 09 Jun, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Peter, I'm very excited by this. I want to thank you for creating a simplified version, as I think it's the only way many people will be able to afford to handle this unique sword. Very nice. Of course, the Museum Line version is going to be something special to see. Do you expect to have the scabbard replicated, too? So damn cool!
In years past, I've been told about this sword by various people who have talked with you about the design characteristics of the original. I've been told of the slight hollow-grinding and complex geometry of the original's blade and have been relaying that to others since. Now to know my info was wrong and what I've posted and told others since makes me feel bad for putting out wrong information. Oh well. Live and learn, I guess.  Sorry, guys...
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Thu 09 Jun, 2005 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | Peter, I'm very excited by this. I want to thank you for creating a simplified version, as I think it's the only way many people will be able to afford to handle this unique sword. Very nice. Of course, the Museum Line version is going to be something special to see. Do you expect to have the scabbard replicated, too? So damn cool!
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I have to second this. This is a piece I have always thought was particularly beautiful, even without all the fine details. Put the details in, and it's even more so. I've obviously never handled this particular sword - the original or an accurate recreation. What I have done, though, is handled a sufficiently broad range of pieces, and do so on a regular basis. It is uncommon for me to go more than a day between sessions of taking one of my swords out to the yard. Sure, I have my favored pieces, but I do rotate through all of them. They all handle so distinctly differently that I would know which blindfolded. While in Atlanta, I had the opportunity to spend a little time with the Svante. I was stunned; this is a piece like no other. I appreciate that little time I had, and look forward to when I can get mine paid off so I can continue to learn and explore. But I'm very fortunate. I feel this will be another very unique piece, and I'm glad to see it will be available to a broader group.
Thank you, Peter, Howy!
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Edward Hitchens
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| Posted: Thu 09 Jun, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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I thought this one looked familiar!  It's in Oakeshott's Records (type XVIIIa.5). "As if it had been made yesterday," he describes. Will the Museum Line version have the nice gilding on it?
"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 10 Jun, 2005 1:19 am Post subject: |
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About the future Museum Line version...
Gilding: The original has steel furniture (not bronze as Oakeshott writes) that has bevels and details fire gilded. This is a highly toxic method utilzing an amalgam of mercury that provides a generous layer of buttery gold. A marvellous finish, but alas not viable today. The alternative today is electrolytic giliding. This can be applied thicker than normal, but it is still a far stretch away from fire giliding.
If we offer gilding I think it will have to be as a customer option. The customer must then be aware that the gilding is not as permanent as the gilding on the original. After much handling the gold will wear through.
Gilding is also a cost issue. WeŽll have to see if it is worth the effort. Some customers might also be disappointed regardless how much you inform them in advance. I would be very sad to see discussions about this swordometimes arouse great interest in a way that overshadows the real focus of the work.
Gilding could well be a detail that will detract rather than add to the whole.
I have not decided what way would be wisest on this one.
Scabbard:
This is a litle bit the same situation. I have seen two photos of the sword with scabbard (the actual scabbard had been mislaid when I documented the original and had been for some time. It was only because I asked for it they found it again). The first photo showed what looked like a very restrained and simple but elegant scabbard (possibly with byknives). The other showed a very ornate scabbard. The ornate one is rather recent knowledge to me, but I think it is the correct one (what I could have seen was the backside of it, donŽt know...). The present custom reconstruction I am working on will have the clean line scabbard (without byknives.)
So, for a museum line version there are a number of issues to relate to. Is it feasible to produce a highly ornate scabbard with scroll work down the complete length (just making justice to the grip will be quite a task, I can tell you). Also there is the matter of byknives and an awl...
I am leaning towards developing a simplified scabbard for this sword, as one including everything would cost almost as much as much as the rest of the sword. Very few would appreciate that.
A cleaner, simplified scabbard without byknives would be the way to go I think.
Making a fully ornate one as one off custom projects is an option, but then the customer should be prepared to invest some pretty funds in the project. It is a major accomplishment to make such a scabbard with knives and fitting the whole together with the sword.
Hope this helps- Even if I cannot say anything really definitive about any of these questions yet.
There will be a scabbard for the sword offered for those who want it. I cannot say what the standard scabbard will be like. If it is not a cop of the original it will still be a scabbar in style and period of the sword, that much is certain.
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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For some reason, I'd like to antique this sword more than any other, especially if I could first tool the wrap and get some gold leaf to adhere to the fittings. I guess part of the attraction is that the threshold is a bit lower for an authentic looking antique job since the original is in such fantastic condition. If folks start antiquing Albion swords, I hope they'll start with this one. I'd love to see a meticulous job that would match the original as closely as possible. Beautiful recreation!
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that the new NG Munich looks like it will be a wonderful piece, and the Museum Line will probably be spectacular. But, Sean, the thought of antiquing either of them... I'm sorry, but I just couldn't bring myself to do that. A Windlass piece, maybe, but one of those?? Nope.
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Sean-
I like that idea for this Albion more than the others as well... I had considered aging my Knight and actually my Brescia, but this piece seems to fit that better than they do.
I'd also like to see someone take the Museum Line piece and apply the gold and such.
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject: Aging |
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I just don't have the confidence that I could "improve" on these pieces. Instead, I am sure I would end up with a horrible, irreparable mess. 
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, I didn't say I was actually going to do it, just thought the effect might be nice. If I do decide to go this route, I'll be nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room of rocking chairs the whole time. All the same, I like the concept.
I actually put my eyeballs (and hands) on Howy's personal Knight and the scabbard Kevin made for it. I really dig the effect. I don't know how I would feel about messing with the blade itself, though... I'm pretty um... bold (?), but that is just out of my "I'm cool with this" sphere.
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Aaron, trust me when I say that you're really going to like the Munich. That blade is something else. 
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Hey Aaron, trust me when I say that you're really going to like the Munich. That blade is something else. |
I believe you, Joachim! I'll be the first to know, since mine is #1 in the queue. 
Am I going to fall for it as bad as I did the Svante? My guess is that I probably will, and that says a ton. I bet I'll end up with the Museum piece as well... I love this sword - have for a long time.
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: |
I believe you, Joachim! I'll be the first to know, since mine is #1 in the queue. |
Hehe. I have to congratulate you on that. Me, I'm in line for a Knecht.
| Quote: | | Am I going to fall for it as bad as I did the Svante? My guess is that I probably will, and that says a ton. I bet I'll end up with the Museum piece as well... I love this sword - have for a long time. |
Uh-huh. I believe you will. The Svante is a special sword in its own way, but the Munich. Check that blade. Can you say Mortschlag? 
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Hehe. I have to congratulate you on that. Me, I'm in line for a Knecht. |
Ouch! I haven't gone there yet. Yet. That thing's just all kinds of nasty!
| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Uh-huh. I believe you will. The Svante is a special sword in its own way, but the Munich. Check that blade. Can you say Mortschlag? |
Mort... Mort... Mortschlag? Yeah, I think I remember that one! Talk about "reach out and touch somebody"!
I'm dying to have these two pieces in my posession.
I was literally amazed when Mike handed me the Svante. After some incomprehensible babbles of total "Oh my GOD!!!", my next words were "Put me down for one, Mike. Happy birthday to me!". Any funds that aren't already marked for living or other commitments already made will be going towards paying that one off. I could handle getting my present early!
As for the Munich, oh wow. There was an instant connection there. It's very different from any other piece in my collection, but I'll tell you exactly where it will go in the lineup! Bet it sees a ton of hands-on time, too.
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: |
Ouch! I haven't gone there yet. Yet. That thing's just all kinds of nasty! |
Oh yeah. And then some. PJ told me it's "totally you, Joachim". Hehe.
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Mort... Mort... Mortschlag? Yeah, I think I remember that one! Talk about "reach out and touch somebody"! |
LOL. Yes indeed. And if there ever was a blade that was well and truly suited to be gripped and halfsworded, it's the blade of the Munich.
| Quote: | I'm dying to have these two pieces in my posession.
I was literally amazed when Mike handed me the Svante. After some incomprehensible babbles of total "Oh my GOD!!!", my next words were "Put me down for one, Mike. Happy birthday to me!". Any funds that aren't already marked for living or other commitments already made will be going towards paying that one off. I could handle getting my present early!
As for the Munich, oh wow. There was an instant connection there. It's very different from any other piece in my collection, but I'll tell you exactly where it will go in the lineup! Bet it sees a ton of hands-on time, too. |
Hehe, I don't blame you for wanting them. Who in his right mind wouldn't!
Yeah. The Svante has got a tendency to do that to people. I still have fond, fond memories of my first time with the Svante.
...Oh my.... That just sounded so.... wrong.
I know what you mean with a connection though. There's just something about that sword that's hard to put into words. It's just there. And it just draws you to it. And that goes for the sword with or without the extra engravings and leatherwork. It's one of those swords that just begs to be used.
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Oh yeah. And then some. PJ told me it's "totally you, Joachim". Hehe. |
Somehow, this just doesn't surprise me. That piece just scares the hell out of me. It's on my list, just not at the top. It'll climb a couple of slots when it is actually in production, though, I'll bet.
| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | And if there ever was a blade that was well and truly suited to be gripped and halfsworded, it's the blade of the Munich. |
My immediate thoughts exactly. I had a rush of visions or feelings of how that sword could be used the instant I saw the sketch. I actually considered cancelling my Svante for it. Then I came to my senses... and just ordered one also.
| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | Hehe, I don't blame you for wanting them. Who in his right mind wouldn't! |
Dude, don't ever make the mistake of calling me sane again!
Seriously, I count myself very, very fortunate. Broke, but fortunate. I love each and every piece in my collection - it hasn't really diminished as pieces get added. Each and every one has it's own bit of magic for me. All that aside, though, the Svante knocked me for the biggest loop. I mean, holy crap, what point control! What lethal mass! That's a war sword, to be certain. Again, though, I almost canceled my order for it to bring the Munich home, and I haven't handled it yet. It spoke that loudly to me.
... and I'm going to leave your torrid moments with the Svante alone, but only because there isn't a smiley that has mussed hair and is smoking a cigarette.  A proverb comes to mind here... something about people who live in glass houses...
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | | ...My immediate thoughts exactly. I had a rush of visions or feelings of how that sword could be used the instant I saw the sketch. I actually considered cancelling my Svante for it. Then I came to my senses... and just ordered one also.... |
Wow. I guess the Munich REALLY spoke to you 
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jun, 2005 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I ordered a Munich also. Love that design.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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