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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,524

PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2022 4:36 pm    Post subject: Italian observations of english bowmen. help?         Reply with quote

actually.
theres a quote in a encounter of italian ambassadors to the english court some time in the 16th century
that contains a quote to some effect
'the use strong bows but they only shoot at close targets, the arquebusiers shoot at long distances'
or SOMETHING.
does anyone know where this might be from, and maybe even knowing the proper passage?
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Anthony Clipsom




Location: YORKSHIRE, UK
Joined: 27 Jul 2009

Posts: 332

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct, 2022 4:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've read quite a few Italian ambassadorial quotes about Tudor archery but don't recognise this one. There is, if you are generally interested, a selection of quotes from Italian ambassadors about Tudor soldiery in this article.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44219135

While it's on Jstor, it is readable online for free.

The general thrust of the argument looks more like the comment of a soldier and would fit some of the things said at the time. Take, for example, this comment from Blaise de Monluc

Quote:
they all carried arms of little reach, and therefore were necessitated to come up close to us to loose their arrows, which otherwise would do no execution; whereas we who were accustomed to fire our Harquebuzes at a great distance, seeing the Enemy use another manner of sight, thought these near approaches of theirs very strange, imputing their running on at this confident rate to absolute bravery


But if anything can be turned up from an Italian source, I would be interested to see it too.

Anthony Clipsom
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 877

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct, 2022 5:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you searched the bow vs. musket blog? https://bowvsmusket.com/
www.bookandsword.com
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Anthony Clipsom




Location: YORKSHIRE, UK
Joined: 27 Jul 2009

Posts: 332

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct, 2022 5:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Manning wrote:
Have you searched the bow vs. musket blog? https://bowvsmusket.com/


I had a look Sean but couldn't see anything (it was where I lifted the Blaise de Monluc quote from, though).

Anthony Clipsom
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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,524

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct, 2022 6:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anthony Clipsom wrote:
I've read quite a few Italian ambassadorial quotes about Tudor archery but don't recognise this one. There is, if you are generally interested, a selection of quotes from Italian ambassadors about Tudor soldiery in this article.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44219135

While it's on Jstor, it is readable online for free.

The general thrust of the argument looks more like the comment of a soldier and would fit some of the things said at the time. Take, for example, this comment from Blaise de Monluc

Quote:
they all carried arms of little reach, and therefore were necessitated to come up close to us to loose their arrows, which otherwise would do no execution; whereas we who were accustomed to fire our Harquebuzes at a great distance, seeing the Enemy use another manner of sight, thought these near approaches of theirs very strange, imputing their running on at this confident rate to absolute bravery


But if anything can be turned up from an Italian source, I would be interested to see it too.


that might be it actually, it does cover the element that
1 archers had to get close to shoot with any effect
2 the harquebusiers could shoot much further.

whether its the exact quote i had seen, im not sure, theres a vew bow vs arquebus threads here
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