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Ryan Renfro
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Victor R.
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 Posted: Fri 07 Oct, 2022 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Generally good looking pieces. Not a fan of the tramp stamp. Windlass has to quit doing this.
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Ulf Lidsman
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| Posted: Sat 08 Oct, 2022 1:10 am Post subject: |
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I agree about the stamps. I think that the Windlass makers mark is OK but the Royal Armouries and the "made in..." text is not. I also believe that the hanger would have looked better with a bar or without the nagel. If I remember right the first prototype Matt Easton showed had the bar. It would interesting to now why they changed that.
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Mark Millman
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| Posted: Sat 08 Oct, 2022 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Windlass Royal Armouries collection |
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Dear Folks,
| On Friday 7 October 2022, Ryan Renfro wrote: | The only real criticism I have at this point is that the 15th century falchion has a nagel which bends toward the point, whereas the original bends toward the pommel and appears to be the broken stub of a back of hand guard which extended to the pommel such as in the example below.
https://longswordsinlondon.tumblr.com/post/167213975266/wakefield-hangers |
| And on Saturday 8 October 2022, Ulf Lidsman wrote: | | . . . I also believe that the hanger would have looked better with a bar or without the nagel. If I remember right the first prototype Matt Easton showed had the bar. It would interesting to now why they changed that. |
Apparently the example that Matt Easton documented for Windlass has what was originally a perpendicular nagel, rather than a guard that bends toward the pommel as some of the other similar survivals do. SBG member lebleuchevalier corresponded with Mr. Easton about it, and received this reply:
| On Friday 7 October 2022, Matt Easton wrote: | Hi Daniel,
I have asked Windlass about this.
I agree that the photo makes it look like it is pointing upwards, when it shouldn't be. In fact the example I have in hand was a last prototype and we did change the lug slightly at the last minute, because it seems that on the original sword it is broken and bent downwards, and if this is copied on the replica then it makes the sword very uncomfortable to hold, as the lug then digs into the knuckle. It seems likely that the original's 'lug'/nagel probably projected outwards at about 90 degrees, so this is how the final version should be.
I have messaged Windlass for clarification.
Best wishes,
Matt. |
There's a screenshot of the e-mail message in the SBG posting, which is about two-thirds of the way down the page on which it appears.
I note from the link Ryan Renfro provides that in the photo comparing two examples, one with a complete side guard and one with an abbreviated side guard, the latter is shorter than the perpendicular element of the complete guard. In other words, if it represents a broken side guard, it probably broke before the curve--which makes sense given what Mr. Easton says about its digging into his knuckle when he held the sword.
I hope this proves both helpful and reassuring.
Best,
Mark Millman
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Ulf Lidsman
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| Posted: Sat 08 Oct, 2022 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Yes, thank you Mark. I'm really looking forward to Mr Eastons video about the hanger.
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Ulf Lidsman
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| Posted: Mon 10 Oct, 2022 2:37 am Post subject: |
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How will one be able to remove the Royal Armouries and Windlass text on the swords (not the makers mark)? Any suggestions?
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Ryan S.
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| Posted: Mon 10 Oct, 2022 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ulf Lidsman wrote: | | How will one be able to remove the Royal Armouries and Windlass text on the swords (not the makers mark)? Any suggestions? |
I guess it depends on how it is put on there. It might be removable with acetone, it might require grinding.
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Ryan Hobbs
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| Posted: Mon 10 Oct, 2022 6:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm mainly looking forward to the Castillion two hander. I don't have anything of those proportions in my collection. It looks pretty cool!
I'm mainly concerned with the quality of the product. Most of my swords are Albions (I'm bracing for the snob fanboy jokes) and I've just never been impressed with Windlass's quality. Will these be a higher quality than their run of the mill swords?
Also, I totally agree about the Windlass stamp. It's terribly ahistorical looking and just plain ugly.
No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
Hebrews 12:11
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Mark Millman
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| Posted: Mon 10 Oct, 2022 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Folks,
| On Monday 10 October 2022, Ryan S. wrote: | | On Monday 10 October 2022, Ulf Lidsman wrote: | | How will one be able to remove the Royal Armouries and Windlass text on the swords (not the makers mark)? Any suggestions? |
I guess it depends on how it is put on there. It might be removable with acetone, it might require grinding. |
I've always been able to remove Windlass' printed text with a mild abrasive (emery paper, fine sandpaper, steel wool, a plastic scrubber) but that does leave a slight difference in the blade's finish. I've never tried a solvent, which seems like a good idea. I have rubbing alcohol and nail-polish remover in my cabinet. If a solvent works, I imagine at least one of those will do it.
Best,
Mark Millman
Last edited by Mark Millman on Mon 10 Oct, 2022 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark Millman
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| Posted: Mon 10 Oct, 2022 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Ryan Hobbs,
| On Monday 10 October 2022, you wrote: | | I'm mainly concerned with the quality of the product. Most of my swords are Albions (I'm bracing for the snob fanboy jokes) and I've just never been impressed with Windlass's quality. Will these be a higher quality than their run of the mill swords? |
Early indications are that they will. The designs are better and the measurements do seem to conform to those of the originals that they reproduce. Fit and finish seem to be better than on many of Windlass' other products--I don't think anybody expects Albion's level, but they should be satisfactory--and I hope the contract with the Royal Armouries will ensure consistent quality control. But ultimately we'll have to wait and see. I also hope that if anything starts to slip Matt Easton will intervene, as he's so deeply involved in the project. You may want to watch his YouTube reviews as they come out; he's covered three of the swords so far. There isn't a playlist of the reviews yet, but he seems to be releasing them daily, or close to it.
Best,
Mark Millman
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 11 Oct, 2022 3:04 am Post subject: |
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These look intriguing, though I don't love the labels/stamps. I love the maker's mark. But on the same side of the blade there appears to be a deeply stamped three lines of text: "Windlass, Since 1943, India." That won't come off easily. Matt Easton mentioned the Royal Armouries logo on the other side could probably be scrubbed off. It's too bad they couldn't at least put the Windlass text and Royal Armouries logo on the same side so you could display it with that side facing the wall. 
It's possible (likely, even) that their agreement with the Royal Armouries mandates the use of the logo. Also, import regulations might require a place-of-origin mark. So I get why they might be doing all the marks; it's just a lot and very obviously modern.
However, swords from Windlass that closely match specs of historical sword, at this price point, with scabbards, could be a great addition to the marketplace.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Ulf Lidsman
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| Posted: Tue 11 Oct, 2022 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | It's too bad they couldn't at least put the Windlass text and Royal Armouries logo on the same side so you could display it with that side facing the wall. |
The Windlass/RA text is something that I find really hard to accept and I'm a bit reluctant to hit the buy button because of this. If only they would have settled with the makers mark... But I'll buy one or two of them.
| Chad Arnow wrote: | | However, swords from Windlass that closely match specs of historical sword, at this price point, with scabbards, could be a great addition to the marketplace. |
I agree with you 100% and for me living in Europe where Albions are really hard to get this is something I have hoped for a long time. One can argue that this swords, being very exact copies of existing originals, are close to Albions Museum line rather than Next generation. I have only owned one Museum line Albion (The Tritonia) and I'm looking forward to compare the one(s) I'll buy to that and the Next Gen. I honestly don't expect Albion quality but from what I have seen in Matt Eastons videos they look really good.
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Ulf Lidsman
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| Posted: Tue 11 Oct, 2022 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Which ones of the six swords of the first batch are you interested to buy? This is my top three:
1. 15th century Falchion
2. 15th century Longsword
3. 14th century arming sword
This is due to the fact that my main interest is in the second half of the 15th century and that I fell in love with the 14th century arming sword. The single edge sword would fit in with my time period but there is something with the looks of the blade I don't like.
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Tue 11 Oct, 2022 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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1 = nope
2 = nope
3 = nope
They look nice for Windlass but I'll let somebody else go first at that price. Maybe, if I see and handle one in person. Maybe, if I like it in person. Maybe, if the availability means immediate gratification. Then, maybe, I'd give one a go. That just seems to be a heck of a lot to drop on a Windlass given what floats out in the secondary market now and again.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Ulf Lidsman
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| Posted: Tue 11 Oct, 2022 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Fults wrote: | | ... That just seems to be a heck of a lot to drop on a Windlass given what floats out in the secondary market now and again. |
I guess that I would feel the same if I could by an Albion without have to pay overseas shipping, customs and taxes which in my case adds 40-50 percent to the price. That being said I believe that this line of sword is a huge step in quality and finish compared to other Windlass swords. I have owned the Oakeshott Type XIV and the English two handed sword and none of them where bad swords so if Windlass, with some help from Matt Easton, has stepped up I think this could be something really good.
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Ryan S.
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| Posted: Wed 12 Oct, 2022 5:59 am Post subject: |
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A question about that maker’s mark. How historical is that? It looks a lot bigger and sticks out a lot more than marks on historical swords that I have seen.
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Wed 12 Oct, 2022 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ulf Lidsman wrote: | | Joe Fults wrote: | | ... That just seems to be a heck of a lot to drop on a Windlass given what floats out in the secondary market now and again. |
I guess that I would feel the same if I could by an Albion without have to pay overseas shipping, customs and taxes which in my case adds 40-50 percent to the price. That being said I believe that this line of sword is a huge step in quality and finish compared to other Windlass swords. I have owned the Oakeshott Type XIV and the English two handed sword and none of them where bad swords so if Windlass, with some help from Matt Easton, has stepped up I think this could be something really good. |
I agree with you on all your points. I'm just not going to rush to get one without touching it first.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Victor R.
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| Posted: Thu 13 Oct, 2022 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ryan S. wrote: | | A question about that maker’s mark. How historical is that? It looks a lot bigger and sticks out a lot more than marks on historical swords that I have seen. |
What marks are you comparing to?
Armory marks/acceptance marks and the like are often smaller, but the Passau marks by makers seem to often be larger, though not necessarily as deep. The Passau marks also tend to be inlaid on the blades I've seen pictures of, so they do stand out when you see the blade.
I do think they got a couple of things wrong with it, but not necessarily the size. Placement seems to be in the wrong spot on some of them - I would expect them to be in a fuller, or on the central flat, for a blade with one of those features, and likely nearer the guard, where you have more "depth" to work with. They also seem a bit deep and uniform for a typical strike mark, probably because they're either mechanically struck, or laser etched.
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Ryan S.
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| Posted: Fri 14 Oct, 2022 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Victor R. wrote: | | Ryan S. wrote: | | A question about that maker’s mark. How historical is that? It looks a lot bigger and sticks out a lot more than marks on historical swords that I have seen. |
What marks are you comparing to?
Armory marks/acceptance marks and the like are often smaller, but the Passau marks by makers seem to often be larger, though not necessarily as deep. The Passau marks also tend to be inlaid on the blades I've seen pictures of, so they do stand out when you see the blade.
I do think they got a couple of things wrong with it, but not necessarily the size. Placement seems to be in the wrong spot on some of them - I would expect them to be in a fuller, or on the central flat, for a blade with one of those features, and likely nearer the guard, where you have more "depth" to work with. They also seem a bit deep and uniform for a typical strike mark, probably because they're either mechanically struck, or laser etched. |
I was more thinking, that I haven’t seen marks like that, at least on medieval swords. I have seen the Passauer Wolf, both in pictures and on swords in museums, but it is less noticeable and an inlay. I don’t know when etching and stamping came into practice, but inlay seems to have been typical for the Middle Ages and earlier. That is just the impression I got.
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This is a standard topic