Very strange and long rapier -- myArmoury.com

M Hermes · Posted: Tue 26 Sep, 2023 7:15 am Post subject: Very strange and long rapier

Hi,
It's been a while since I posted anything.
I won this cup-hilt rapier at an art and antiques auction this week. It was described as a 19th/20th century example. Judging from the photos of the blade of this rapier, I made an offer on it because the blade seems much older to me. Today I picked it up and finally had the chance to see it in person. Although this type of weapon falls outside my comfort zone, I can only conclude that it is a strange case. The length is the first thing you notice. The total length is 144 centimeters, the length of the blade is 118 centimeters! That is, as far as I can tell, very long for a rapier. At the very base it is 42 mm wide and 7mm thick.
It is decorated with figures and has a fuller of 33 centimeters. The blade is hand forged and there are a few superficial cracks visible. In general the blade is still reasonably sharp. However, the point is round, but it is of course possible that it has been adjusted at some point.
The cup is also strange. It is hand-forged, the traces of hammering are clearly visible on the inside. It is decorated with chiseled figures. On one side an angel-like figure and an eagle. On the other side something that looks like a coat of arms and an unknown figure. The last two are inlaid with copper wire or something similar, the other two figures still show remnants of the same material under a magnifying glass. One of the arms attached to the inside of the cup once came loose and was repaired with a screw and nut.
Who knows what this is? Is it really a 19th century copy or is it somewhat older?

M Hermes · Posted: Tue 26 Sep, 2023 7:26 am Post subject: Some more photos

Some more photos of this strange rapier

Ryan S. · Posted: Mon 02 Oct, 2023 10:21 am Post subject:

I believe that the eagle is actually a griffin, and the angel is possibly a harpy. I am not sure if that helps with anything. I am not sure if the reflecting light in the picture with the coat of arms is obscuring more details, but I can´t identify any charges, just the ordinary. Maybe, the auction has more information?

Ryan S. · Posted: Mon 02 Oct, 2023 10:47 am Post subject:

I think that the other figure might be a coat of arms too. I marked up a version of it. The green could be a frog mouthed helm with a crown, the yellow: the shield, the red: mantling, and the purple an collar for an knightly order. I don´t know if that helps to identify it.

Pedro Paulo Gaião · Posted: Wed 04 Oct, 2023 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Very strange and long rapier

M Hermes · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2023 4:16 pm Post subject:

M Hermes · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2023 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Very strange and long rapier

M Hermes · Posted: Tue 10 Oct, 2023 3:48 am Post subject:

Ryan S. · Posted: Thu 12 Oct, 2023 1:09 pm Post subject:

Seeing the drawing, I think the second one might just the head of a woman wearing some sort of medieval headdress and a necklace. Although Art Nouveau sometimes has headdresses with things dangling from the side.The other one is looks like a coat of arms in a cartouche, but I can´t make out the design, except for the bend sinister, which is often a mark of illegitimate birth. The bend appears to have hatching marks that go horizontal, meaning that it is blue. My feeling is that it is not a British arms, as the crest is missing, and the Brits are stricter about crowns and supporters and also just my impression. If there was a guess about what the charges are, then I could search for that.