3 Swords - help needed to identify -- myArmoury.com

Beth Helyer

Hello Everyone. I hope some of you knowledgable people might help me identyfy these three swords. I live in SW France - not so far from Spanish border - and a very short distance from the birthplace of D'Artagnan. I bought these three swords at a local car boot from a couple clearing a deceased estate. So I have zero more information. I did not look too closely when I bought them - assuming them to be reproduction things left to rust in a barn, and something to use for decoration or whatever. But on closer inspection I think this may not be the case. They are all very rusted and I have made no attempt to clean them whatsoever. The blades are all around 23 inches long - which is why I assumed they were things used for kids etc. But really, at least two of them may not be the case. Can anyone advise me whether these are things to throw on my wall as deco - or are things worthy of passing onto someone else who is more specialised in this field for them to enjoy better - if you get me. I'm not looking for a valuation - just would like to know what they are. I've done loads of research now - but still totally confused. Would love to know and learn more if any of you can help - or let me know where to look. Am I looking at three repoductions - or genuine items - or a mix??? I think I already may regret leaving behind a blade with no handle - assuming it to be a broken thing. Thanking you all in advance.

Adam Simmonds · Posted: Mon 16 Aug, 2021 6:17 am Post subject:

Hi Beth,

From the pictures it looks to me like you have two modern replicas of little value (top and bottom in the first picture) and one possibly genuine antique 'hunting sword' / 'couteaux de chasse' (the middle one in the first pic).

It seems to have a lot of active rust which will continue to hasten the deterioration of the piece if not arrested. The outline of the blade looks pretty good however so the rust may be relatively superficial with a decent little sword underneath if you're lucky!

Best regards,

Adam

Edward Lee · Posted: Mon 16 Aug, 2021 6:18 am Post subject:

While I cannot tell you if they are real or not but the middle sword resembles 18th century German hunting sword, and the bottom sword looks like the supposed Tizona sword. I'm not sure if that was a one of a kind sword or there were replicas its short like the the other two.

Beth Helyer · Posted: Mon 16 Aug, 2021 6:49 am Post subject:

I think I agree that the bottom one looks poor casting perhaps repro from some years ago. The muscateer type one confuses me as the handle looks to have excellent patina - is metal not wood as I tested with a magnet as it is too grubby to see properly. Does this make any difference? If the hunting sword is real - is there anything I should look for on it - and how would I try to date it?? Sorry - boggled by my own research - don't believe in cleaning things when know nothing about them as I know it can take all the value off it - prefer to leave to people that know more than me. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me - very much appreciated. Very interesting reading about all this - has given me a genuine new interest in this field of expertese.

Adam Simmonds · Posted: Mon 16 Aug, 2021 7:12 am Post subject:

Hi Beth,

The top sword looks like a rather crudely done reproduction. The fact the handle is metal doesn't imply that it is a genuine antique, if anything this detail is atypical. Oxidisation occurs quickly and doesn't necessarily indicate age. The best way to learn more about the middle sword which as said appears to me to look genuinely antique is by getting people's opinions here and if possible taking it to be evaluated by someone in person. I'd guess it dates from somewhere in the 18th Century. Oh and by the way 'hunting swords' such as this weren't necessarily meant for hunting so much as handy and portable little weapons.

Adam

Beth Helyer · Posted: Mon 16 Aug, 2021 8:25 am Post subject:

Hi Adam - thank you for taking the time to reply. I hear your thoughts - I also wondered as the "cup" seemed not to have a lip like others I had seen - but failed to find a short version of anything that looked similar - repro or otherwise. As D'Artagnan birthplace was so near, perhaps something that had been made for some theatrical event crossed my mind - even if it was perhaps a long (??) time ago. The "Tizona" as someone mentioned left me uninspired from closer look - but thought I would add to picture as I bought them all together. So thank you so much for your pointers.

Adam Simmonds · Posted: Tue 17 Aug, 2021 12:56 am Post subject:

You're welcome Beth.

Check the blade for any discernible wording or manufacturer's marks as this may help you identify its provenance.

Also, at the very least I'd oil the blade to stop further oxidisation of the steel. Whether you want to clean it further is up to you and is a topic upon which opinions vary. It looks to me like it could do with a bit of TLC and will likely be worth a few hundred euros if it comes up good.

Best,

Adam

EDIT: I'm referring to the 'hunting sword' here.....

Beth Helyer · Posted: Tue 17 Aug, 2021 1:11 am Post subject:

Hi all - me again. Could the middle sword be a "Cuttoe" - if not, can you explain the difference to me. Confused as to how to value this - I see some on ebay for a little price of €90 ish - and others for many thousands. Not expecting you guys to give me a value - but could you give me a few pointers of why or what I need to look for or at?? Is there are particular name for the grip - does this come under the name of basket grip for example - or is there another name for the type of grip. The blade on mine does not appear to have any nicks in it at all - and this item has obviously not been cleaned at all.

Adam Simmonds · Posted: Tue 17 Aug, 2021 1:39 am Post subject:

You could refer to this by a number of names. Labels are contingent and variable. If selling on eBay you might include names such as sword, hunting sword, short sword, hanger and cuttoe. As you don't know the provenance of the piece or whether it is a genuine antique (the hilt could be 18thC with a 20thC blade attached) and because it is in quite rough condition it is unlikely that you will be able to get a high price for it. Particularly in Europe where such items are relatively commonplace. Your best bet may be to take it to a dealer who can confidently identify it and sell it on consignment for you.

Raman A · Posted: Tue 17 Aug, 2021 3:35 am Post subject:

My opinion is pretty much the same as Adam's, top and bottom ones are replicas. First one is probably a theater or movie prop but I'm not sure, it could have just been intended to be an ornament. The third one is a really common style of cheap replica sword made for the Spanish tourist market. The second one looks interesting and could be an 18th / 19th / early 20th century original hirschfanger but I don't know enough about that style of sword to positively identify it, try contacting someone like Matt Easton: https://www.antique-swords.co.uk/