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Dashiell Harrison
Location: California Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Posts: 62
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 Posted: Thu 17 Mar, 2022 12:42 pm Post subject: Irish Axes - Shape and Irishness? |
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Happy St Patrick's Day Everyone!
I have a couple of questions I've been mulling over with regards to "Irish" axes and today seemed like a good one to ask about them:
1) Why that shape? One of the defining characteristics of the Irish axe appears to be the "humpback" design, as seen in this Arms and Armor reproduction here. Does anyone know why this became popular? To me it's always seemed like a decidedly disadvantageous option compared to something like this Dane Axe, with its sharp "horn" which allows for thrusts. What does the Irish axe get in the trade-off for losing its horn?
2) How Irish is the Irish axe? I've generally seen them most closely associated with the Gallowglass, who weren't Irish in origin at all, but were in fact Norse-Scots who served in Ireland as mercenaries. However, this axe type seems to be much more strongly associated with Ireland than Scotland. Do we have any evidence for how this particular axe shape evolved?
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Charles Dooley
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| Posted: Sun 20 Mar, 2022 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming the 'Humpback' is functional, perhaps it allowed a faster recovery after a stroke of the axe, with less chance of the bitt catching on your opponent's clothing or armor. Also, maybe they used the butt of the haft for thrusting attacks.
I wish I could visit the National Museum of Ireland:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUwHDcTBIFY
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Ryan S.
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| Posted: Mon 21 Mar, 2022 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Irish Axes - Shape and Irishness? |
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| Dashiell Harrison wrote: | Happy St Patrick's Day Everyone!
I have a couple of questions I've been mulling over with regards to "Irish" axes and today seemed like a good one to ask about them:
1) Why that shape? One of the defining characteristics of the Irish axe appears to be the "humpback" design, as seen in this Arms and Armor reproduction here. Does anyone know why this became popular? To me it's always seemed like a decidedly disadvantageous option compared to something like this Dane Axe, with its sharp "horn" which allows for thrusts. What does the Irish axe get in the trade-off for losing its horn?
2) How Irish is the Irish axe? I've generally seen them most closely associated with the Gallowglass, who weren't Irish in origin at all, but were in fact Norse-Scots who served in Ireland as mercenaries. However, this axe type seems to be much more strongly associated with Ireland than Scotland. Do we have any evidence for how this particular axe shape evolved? |
In regard to the Irishness of the Gallowglass, I believe that Gallowglasses often settled in Ireland and weren't always recruited directly from Scotland. That is, a Gallowglass might even be a 3rd generation resident of Ireland and still considered foreign. The concept of Gallowglass also changed over time. Originally a mercenary from Scotland, it eventually referred to a type of soldier. Thus, even though mercenaries kept coming from Scotland, at some point they stopped being called Gallowglasses.
This really doesn't answer your question about the Irishness of the "Irish" ax, but even if it was a Gallowglass style, it belongs to Irish history, especially since most Irish today descend from a Gallowglass.
My understanding of these axes, is that the shape of the head varied a lot. I am suspicious of the idea of a standard national style. I think we have a prejudice in favor of national styles which makes them more than good marketing. I think that Oakeshott´s typology would be well known outside the sword enthusiast community, if it gave the styles national designations, instead of Roman numerals. Of course, as a scholar, he was right not too.
There is unfortunately no typology for axes that I am aware of. That doesn't mean that there isn't truth to the idea of national styles. There certainly existed regional and national styles for other things(weapons, tools, clothes, art etc.) Really, what is needed from a research perspective is to create a typology that is neutral and then see where the certain types are found.
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Sean Manning
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| Posted: Mon 21 Mar, 2022 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Irish Axes - Shape and Irishness? |
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| Ryan S. wrote: | | There is unfortunately no typology for axes that I am aware of. That doesn't mean that there isn't truth to the idea of national styles. There certainly existed regional and national styles for other things(weapons, tools, clothes, art etc.) Really, what is needed from a research perspective is to create a typology that is neutral and then see where the certain types are found. |
There are typologies for Scandy axes of the Viking Age, but not for the high middle ages as far as I know. I think a Petersen published one?
Gerald of Wales says that the Irish walk around with their axe like a staff (or a Hungarian fokos!) If I walked with an axe like that, I would not want a point sticking up that could snag on things. Even if I sheathed the edge so it did not cut, it would still be a bother.
Edit: Added link to a translation of the History and Topography of Ireland.
weekly writing ~ material culture
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Ryan S.
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| Posted: Sat 26 Mar, 2022 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for pointing out that typology. I if the Vikings used such a variety of axes, then that speaks against there being one national style.
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J. Nicolaysen
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| Posted: Sun 27 Mar, 2022 8:51 am Post subject: |
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That Arms and Armor axe is a Irish ‘Group 3’ (cúl croma) type by Halpin's typology of Irish Axes. The book is out of print.
https://www.academia.edu/41010925/Weapons_and_Warfare_in_Viking_and_Medieval_Dublin
It is similar to the famous engraved one found at Clonteevy, and here it is in Class 21, meta-typology by Cormac Bourke.
https://www.academia.edu/12451431/Antiquities_from_the_River_Blackwater_III_iron_axe_heads?fbclid=IwAR2R1eSdJ31BGFmyfCMdOJfU9rII8Fwz32f_0v1ZoBCBG_JlbDOT1ysz5l4
The A&A axe is definitely an Irish style found at Annabheg, county Tyrone.The purpose of the "hunchback" might be anyone's guess. As you can see, while it's a very distinctive style, it's far outnumbered by other types in Ireland.
I will quote Bourke: | Quote: | Class 21 is a distinctive form depicted on the Creagh tomb in Ennis Friary, Co Clare, of c 1470,
and the McLeod tomb at Rodel, Harris, of 1528.
Mahr has published two such axe-heads, one from Co Mayo, the other acquired in Co Donegal. Both are overlaid with
silver, the latter in a scheme akin to that of No 125 and perhaps from the same workshop.
Mahr’s 13th-centurydate is in conflict with the iconographic evidence, and his belief that the type was necessarily used by
gallóglaigh or gallowglasses is open to question. But there is some support for the association, and for our preferred dating, in a 16th-century reference to a ‘silver axe’ as a symbol of authority in gallowglass hands (and some silver-inlaid Class 11 axe-heads are potentially contemporary). Moreover an axe which approximates to Class 21 is shown on a map of c 1600 in a miniature depicting an O’Neill inauguration at Tullaghoge, Co Tyrone (Pl 1).
The overall shape is the same and the straight, elongated cutting edge diverges characteristically from the line of the haft. Hayes-McCoy identified the axe-bearer as MacDonald of Knockinclohy, the hereditary head of O’Neill’s gallowglasses, on the general grounds that the axe is long-hafted, but the form of the axe-head itself may be more relevant to the identification. The date of the map is appropriate to Class 21, while the fringed woolen mantles which O’Neill and his retainers are shown to wear inspires confidence in the accuracy of the picture.
The same type of axe is depicted on the slab(now at Killybegs) from Ballysaggart, Co Donegal, for which a 16th-century date has been suggested (Pl 2).
The Hiberno-Scottish or Gaelic context of Class 21 is further illuminated by the evidence of a cross-slab from Kilmaha, Argyll, on the shores of Loch Awe; one face displays chevrons, lozenges and step-patterns in combination, as on No 125 |
pages 87-88
I hope these sources which I recently found myself will help you.
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