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William P
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 Posted: Sat 01 Apr, 2023 5:43 pm Post subject: how do Primary sources describe archer use |
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if people have any Primary Sources (such as chronicles, diaries etc. ) in both ancient and medieval world (other than the English archers of the HYW) that describe archers on foot shooting in a battlefield scale
and if those Primary Source Accounts really give a indication how those archers were positioned and when and how they were used in the battle.
theres this notion that a vast majority of the time archers were shooting in big arcs at long distance stationed behind the infantry
And i want some direct evidence from the original sources.
im aware that this is probably an gross exaggeration
my main knowledge is accounts and discussions surrounding the longbowmen of agincourt, crecy etc. so thats not so much in doubt
but weve got things like caesers gallic wars, josephus, the persian wars, etc etc.but it sounds like the actual role of archers is barely mentioned...
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Anthony Clipsom
Location: YORKSHIRE, UK Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun 02 Apr, 2023 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | And i want some direct evidence from the original sources.
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They should deploy in eight ranks and their deployment should be close ordered. And the front four ranks of the formation must be of spearmen, whose spearpoints end in thin iron shanks. And the foremost of them should hold them at the ready, in order that when the enemies near them, they can thrust the ironpoints of the spears at the breast of the horses in particular. Those standing in second, third an fourth rank of the formation must hold their spears ready for thrusting if possible, wounding the horses and killing the horsemen and put the rider out of action with the spear stuck in their heavy body armour and the iron point bent because of the softness. The following ranks should be of the javelineers. The ninth rank behind them should be the foot archers, those of the Numidians, Cyrenaicans, Bosporans and Ityraeans.
From Arrian's Array against the Alans from the early second century.
While perhaps a specialist use, it does show that archers could be deployed as suggested. Similar deployments are seen in Byzantine manuals, IIRC.
Anthony Clipsom
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William P
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| Posted: Sun 02 Apr, 2023 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Anthony Clipsom wrote: | | Quote: | And i want some direct evidence from the original sources.
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They should deploy in eight ranks and their deployment should be close ordered. And the front four ranks of the formation must be of spearmen, whose spearpoints end in thin iron shanks. And the foremost of them should hold them at the ready, in order that when the enemies near them, they can thrust the ironpoints of the spears at the breast of the horses in particular. Those standing in second, third an fourth rank of the formation must hold their spears ready for thrusting if possible, wounding the horses and killing the horsemen and put the rider out of action with the spear stuck in their heavy body armour and the iron point bent because of the softness. The following ranks should be of the javelineers. The ninth rank behind them should be the foot archers, those of the Numidians, Cyrenaicans, Bosporans and Ityraeans.
From Arrian's Array against the Alans from the early second century.
While perhaps a specialist use, it does show that archers could be deployed as suggested. Similar deployments are seen in Byzantine manuals, IIRC. |
the byzantine manuals im decently familar with, especially the 10th century praecepta militaria and its sequal from nikephoros ouranos
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Anthony Clipsom
Location: YORKSHIRE, UK Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun 02 Apr, 2023 4:54 am Post subject: |
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When ranks have been properly closed, and the line is about one bowshot from the enemy, and the fighting is just about to begin, the command is given: “Ready.” " Right after this another officer shouts: “Help us.” In unison everyone responds loudly and clearly: “О God.” The light-armed troops start shooting their arrows overhead.
From Strategicon of Maurice, Book XII, chapter 16.
Maurice has already commented that the archers should be drawn up behind the heavy infantry and there should be at least one rank of archers per four ranks of heavier infantry.
| Quote: | | the byzantine manuals im decently familar with, especially the 10th century praecepta militaria and its sequal from nikephoros ouranos |
Maurice's book is , of course, earlier than these, when it might be said there was more emphasis on infantry.
Anthony Clipsom
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Pieter B.
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| Posted: Sun 02 Apr, 2023 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | When the arrows in the quiver are running low, do not use up the last arrow, but make a line to permit shooting to continue, and engage in hand-to-hand fighting. When forced to withdraw defend from a spear's length away and then shoot into the space. This should be completely successful. If you are forced to shoot while looking up at their face you cannot ward off an enemy. These are the secrets of bow fighting. - Zōhyō Monogatari |
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Anthony Clipsom
Location: YORKSHIRE, UK Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Mon 03 Apr, 2023 5:36 am Post subject: |
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"The Norman archers rained torrents of arrows down onto the English, but they took shelter under their shields and prevented them from reaching their target. However many arrows they shot, and however carefully they took aim, the Normans were unable to cause the English significant damage. (8144)
Then they took the decision to fire up into the air so that, when the arrows came down, they would fall directly on the heads of the English and wound them in the face. This is exactly what the archers did: by shooting high into the air, they made the arrows come down onto the Englishmen’s heads, piercing their skulls or cutting into their faces. Many of them lost their eyes, with the result that the men no longer dared keep their faces uncovered or their eyes open. Arrows came crashing down thicker and faster than sheets of rain lashed by the wind. They came in such thick clouds that the English called them gnats"
Master Wace : Roman de Rou trans Ian Short.
This is from Wace's description of Hastings.
Anthony Clipsom
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Sean Manning
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