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Guilherme C.
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 Posted: Sun 05 Aug, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: Bent Swords... |
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Hail! Long time no see guys, first login in months.
Last time I was here, I was trying to join a club to learn HEMA(and so I did!), And I'm training for quite a while now. In our last sparring session, one of my clubmates(newcomers...) literally "bashed" me with his sword, And my one got bent. I'm wondering if that is a problem with temper, and if that should happen...
At our club we only have two kind-of-real swords made out of steel. And they're borrowed from a clubmate that made'em. The construction is very simple, the guard itself is cut out of a steel sheet, and so is the blade. It was cut, then tempered.
The "bending" was solved just forcing the blade back into shape, but still, I found that very awkward. As the swords are really simple, I wonder if that's natural with a good blunt sword, or even a well constructed feder.
Anyway, I thank you all in advance for replying.
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Mark Moore
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| Posted: Sun 05 Aug, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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A bent sword is better than a broken sword any day. At least you were able to bend it back, so that is a testament to it's durability. If it were a tad harder, it might have broken.  ........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Tim Harris
Industry Professional
Location: Melbourne, Australia Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sun 05 Aug, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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A lot would depend on the steel and the quality of the heat-treatment. If the bend came from a hit, it would suggest the heat-treatment is soft or incomplete. If the edges of the blade chew up very easily, that would point to insufficient hardness.
Blades made of a reliable grade of spring steel work quite well hardened and tempered to about 50-52 Rockwell C.
No sword is indestructible. A well made one shouldn't bend and stay bent, but with time and use, stresses can accumulate and lead to fatigue.
https://www.facebook.com/TimHarrisSwords
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 06 Aug, 2018 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim Harris wrote: | A lot would depend on the steel and the quality of the heat-treatment. If the bend came from a hit, it would suggest the heat-treatment is soft or incomplete. If the edges of the blade chew up very easily, that would point to insufficient hardness.
Blades made of a reliable grade of spring steel work quite well hardened and tempered to about 50-52 Rockwell C.
No sword is indestructible. A well made one shouldn't bend and stay bent, but with time and use, stresses can accumulate and lead to fatigue. |
As mentioned better bending than breaking that can be dangerous.
My Albion Liechtenauer has had at least 5 years of use in training and the blade has only very shallow dimples in it's "edge ", no deep notches have ever happened and maintenance has been limited to very very light use of abrasives to smooth out very small sharp corners after a rare heavy blow received on the sword.
It helps that most of my training has been using a lot of control and the same with training partners: I can see where someone with no control or very little training might give maximum hits completely forgetting that training isn't trying to smash in the brains of your training partners...... 
Anyone " BASHING " without control, physical or emotional control, is not a safe, respectful or an emotionally mature training partner: Unless they quickly change their attitude is not acceptable unless it was a first mistake and that they quickly prove that they can learn how to be a safe training partner.( Only can be a " Jerk " once, twice and they are out ! )
Now, if heat treated properly at between 50 to 52 RC and used against the same a training sword should still be able to take a very heavy blow without taking a permanent bend, but still soft enough that if it's elastic limit was exceeded the training sword would still bend rather than break.
Just speculating but maybe your training swords where heat treated too soft, or the steel may be mild steel without enough carbon to harden ? This could happen if the steel was mis-identified as high carbon steel, or was "mystery steel " of unknown composition ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Guilherme C.
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| Posted: Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:44 am Post subject: About control... |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Tim Harris wrote: | A lot would depend on the steel and the quality of the heat-treatment. If the bend came from a hit, it would suggest the heat-treatment is soft or incomplete. If the edges of the blade chew up very easily, that would point to insufficient hardness.
Blades made of a reliable grade of spring steel work quite well hardened and tempered to about 50-52 Rockwell C.
No sword is indestructible. A well made one shouldn't bend and stay bent, but with time and use, stresses can accumulate and lead to fatigue. |
As mentioned better bending than breaking that can be dangerous.
My Albion Liechtenauer has had at least 5 years of use in training and the blade has only very shallow dimples in it's "edge ", no deep notches have ever happened and maintenance has been limited to very very light use of abrasives to smooth out very small sharp corners after a rare heavy blow received on the sword.
It helps that most of my training has been using a lot of control and the same with training partners: I can see where someone with no control or very little training might give maximum hits completely forgetting that training isn't trying to smash in the brains of your training partners......
Anyone " BASHING " without control, physical or emotional control, is not a safe, respectful or an emotionally mature training partner: Unless they quickly change their attitude is not acceptable unless it was a first mistake and that they quickly prove that they can learn how to be a safe training partner.( Only can be a " Jerk " once, twice and they are out ! )
Now, if heat treated properly at between 50 to 52 RC and used against the same a training sword should still be able to take a very heavy blow without taking a permanent bend, but still soft enough that if it's elastic limit was exceeded the training sword would still bend rather than break.
Just speculating but maybe your training swords where heat treated too soft, or the steel may be mild steel without enough carbon to harden ? This could happen if the steel was mis-identified as high carbon steel, or was "mystery steel " of unknown composition ? |
Yeah, we were not so hard on the guys because they are newcomers. We have this custom to let newcomers spar 'cause it motivates them to like the sport. But sure, we told them that's not the way one should fence. Sharp blades woudn't need that kind of force to bring a world of hurt to your enemy.
As for the steel, I think they are 1080 high carbon steel, at least one of them is, the other one I didn't ask our blacksmith XD
They are very simple weapons, not even near fancy stuff like the Albion ones.
But thanks to all of you for the answers. It is always good to talk with you guys here!
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