[Chris Lampe]

I'm trying to become more active and improve my health and I'm considering picking up one of the WMA books to use primarily as an exercise program. I've thought about taking a traditional martial art but I'm not real big on going to classes or working in groups and WMA holds a significant intrinsic interest for me.

My primary interest is in single-hand swords and I'm wondering if any of the commonly available books offer a significant number of solo drills that I can utilize. The books I'm interested in so far:

Medieval Sword and Shield by Wagner & Hand: Chivalry Bookshelf's website doesn't have any sample pages so I don't have any idea what the content is like.

English Swordsmanship by Hand: I read one review that indicates this book may contain a fair number of solo drills but Chivalry Bookshelf's sample pages don't show this.

Sigmund Ringek's Knightly Arts of Combat by Lindholm: Amazon's sample pages show excellent and easy to understand diagrams for I.33 but I don't know how extensive that section is since the book also covers two other styles of fighting.

I know there are several longsword books and I own one (Windsor's) but I don't really have any enthusiasm for the weapon.

Does anyone have any input on these three books or any others that I haven't mentioned? Training tools is also a consideration with the I.33 tools being the easiest to come by and an English backsword trainer being more of a problem.

[Nathan Robinson]

Have you read all the reviews in our bookstore?

Medieval Sword & Shield: The Combat System of Royal Armouries MS I.33

English Swordsmanship: The True Fight of George Silver

Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art Of The Longsword

That's a start and I'd encourage others to provide additional input based on the needs you expressed.

[Chris Lampe]

[Hugh Knight]

[Andrew Maxwell]

Have you considered the Bolognese material? It has lots of solo assaults. Steve Reich and Tom Leoni both have books and online material out.

see http://www.freelanceacademypress.com/complete...dsman.aspx

[Christopher Treichel]

You could try some of the Bolognese style such as Manciolino which has a number of assaulto (series of moves in an attack) that you could do repetiviely... I think someone posted some on you tube a while ago...

[Christopher Treichel]

jinx...

here is what I was referring to... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Ws3rZO9Is

[Chris Lampe]

Hugh,

Thanks for the information on the three books I mentioned. I realized later that the buckler material in the Ringeck book wasn't actually I.33.

Christopher and Andrew, thanks for pointing me toward the Bolognese material. I was aware that such a thing existed but I know nothing about it. The YouTube video is interesting as I've considered Tai chi for the sword forms and that doesn't look all that disimilar. I'll do some research into the Bolognese school(s) of swordsmanship.

[Neil Langley]

I find that Medieval Sword and Shield is a rather stilted interpretation of I.33 (indeed Stephen hand has acknowledged the shortcomings of the interpretation in his article for Spada 2 so I hope he will agree with this). For a great take on the dynamics of I.33 I can heartily recommend you see Dave Rawling's Boar’s Tooth DVDs (http://fightmedieval.com/store), which focus on a comparatively narrow set of wards, but show the basic mechanics of I.33 very effectively indeed. Whilst not adding much in the way of solo work these DVDs will really help you in terms of correct movement and balance!

By the way, if you are interested in the wider aspects of sword and buckler work, not just I.33, then Hugh Knight's own book based on the 15th century masters is well worth adding to your collection too (as indeed are all Hugh's works - which are available from www.lulu.com).

Neil

[Hugh Knight]

[Craig Shackleton]

Honestly, if you are looking for solo drills with single sword, I'd go to Joachim Meyer's Kunst des Fechtens, available in translation by Jeffrey Forgeng. Even though (or perhaps because) it was published in 1570, the drills stand up very well and build in complexity as you learn them. While the largest single section is on longsword, he has significant chapters on dussack (essentially a messer trainer) and rapier, with specific solo drills for both.

I.33 does not lend itself to solo drill, regardless of which interpretation you follow, and I don't believe that either the Hand/Wagner book nor the Rawlings video give particular guidance on solo drills. I also feel pretty strongly that both of these interpretations were published early in their development process and do not hold up to extended use or scrutiny. As full disclosure though, I should admit that I have my own extensive interpretation of I.33 that differs greatly from both of theirs.

I also feel that Hand's Silver book also doesn't really cover solo drill, although otherwise it is in every way superior to his I.33 book.

[Craig Shackleton]

Somehow, only half my post showed up. I'll add the rest here:

Lignitzer's sword and buckler material seems more suited to solo drill than I.33, and Hugh's book touches on this. I like Hugh's book. Thetre' is more paired work than solo, though, obviously

The other big single sword source I like is Leckuchner's messer. Agilitas TV's video is really good, although I'm not an authority on the material. There are some solo drills, but again most of th material is for pairs.

Overall, I echo Hugh's comments; solo drill can only take you so far, and really, not very far. Even if you just want to do this for exercise, you should find a training partner, or better yet, a competent instructor.

Good luck n your quest!

[Craig Peters]

I'd like to second what Craig Shackleton wrote about long sword. I think it's better suited for an exercise regimine, particulary because both of your arms are employed when delivering strikes and blows. Meyer is a good manual to work from, since he includes cutting drills which Craig mentioned.

Go with the long sword.

[Steven Reich]

In my opinion, the best WMA solo stuff available for exercise would be the stuff for Spadone/Montante (i.e. the very large two-handed swords). The sword is quite big and will be a good workout--plus, it is historical as some of the period authors talk about it being good for fitness (e.g. Alfieri).

You can get a wooden trainer from Purpleheart Armoury here and Eric Myers and Steve Hick have made a translation of Figueyredo's material which is freely available here from the Oakeshott Institute.

Steve

[Christian Henry Tobler]

I think Steve's suggestion is excellent. You could also simply do longsword exercise (Italian, German) but with a larger sword. I practice occassionally with a very heavy sword to get a good workout. Certainly, some later German sources, such as the so-called Goliath Fechtbuch, show true two-handed swords being used with Liechtenauer's techniques.

Poleaxe and/or halberd drills are also a good workout. We have some (though not a lot) of solo work on our poleaxe instructional DVD.

Cheers,

Christian

[Randall Pleasant]

[Steven Reich]

[Craig Shackleton]

This is a derailment, but just to defend my earlier statement, yes, all sword arts require some solo drill, but most of the techniques in I.33 cannot be meaningfully practiced without a partner. Also, I specifically meant that neither Hand and Wagner's book nor Rawling's video direct you as to how to do any significant amount of solo drill.

As far as cutting through the seven wards, it does make a nice little drill, but it doesn't teach us anything about I.33. I suspect this exact drill was essentially a kata that was taught to the "common fencers" that our friend Clerus Lutegerus so often refers to. But since the manual never once instructs us to cut directly from out of distance from a ward, and actually ignores how to fight from several of the wards, I would contend that the manual doesn't support the use of that particular dill, and the drill doesn't teach the techniques actually laid down in the manuscript.

I understand that my contention is not widely accepted. I am happy to discuss it further, and welcome any evidence that contradicts my beliefs, but in another thread, please. I won't respond in this thread to any further discussion about the specifics of Clerus Lutegerus' system, I just wanted to clarify why I said that it does not suit solo drill.

On a separate and more on topic note, I agree with the comments about Montante, which I know little about, except that it's a big sword, and that the source material seems to include solo drills specifically. Nice call!

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Hi Craig,

I see what you're driving at. Indeed, there are no solo drills *inherent* in I.33 per se. In general, I.33 is a pedagogy for a series of decisions that are made in a fight, and not a primer on how to fight with cutting swords with bucklers. As Sean Hayes has aptly observed, I.33 is a great lesson plan, but very short on technical/mechanical details (how do I step, close measure, etc.)

However, an ultimately meaningful interpretation of I.33 would have to have such drills, I feel.

To a lesser extent though, the same solo drill critique could be leveled at Liechtenauer or Fiore; such drills must be evolved out of an interpretation - they're not inherent in the material itself. Meyer is quite different: he explicitly gives you cutting exercises to perform solo.

As a bit of a sidebar, but perhaps more germane to the thread at hand: solo exercises can also be drawn out of partnered actions. I do this all the time - 'shadow box' through a play without a partner. I get a lot of exercise doing this, and often do some 'first pass' interpretation in this fashion.

Cheers,

Christian

[Steven Reich]