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William M




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 3:18 am    Post subject: Article - Viking Sword Found at High Altitude in Finland         Reply with quote

Hi all,

I saw this article and thought it would be of interest. In particular I really like how nicely defined the fuller is.
I am always surprised with how simple the fittings on these types of swords tend to be, considering just how expensive the sword would had been at the time.

http://secretsoftheice.com/news/2017/09/05/viking-sword/

https://youtu.be/xwTwY6YHfv8



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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, there is that theory that type M "upper guards" and pommels were basic fittings that cutler would put on a sword so that it is functional, but wealthier customers would order new fancy fittings after choosing their blade.
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Greg Ballantyne




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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I read this article earlier today, but there were no pictures included. Do the pictures make anyone else wonder about authenticity? It strikes me that the rust/corrosion looks fairly new, and the grip length appears quite long.
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Peter Lyon
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 2:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Having looked at the context of the find and the group doing the archaeology, the very cold and dry conditions there (the sword was likely in ice for most of the last 1000 years), and seeing a herringbone pattern in the fuller in a closeup, I don't doubt this is the real deal.
Still hammering away
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 3:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greg Ballantyne wrote:
I read this article earlier today, but there were no pictures included. Do the pictures make anyone else wonder about authenticity? It strikes me that the rust/corrosion looks fairly new, and the grip length appears quite long.


I think that it was quite nicely preserved in the permafrost for a long time and only recently with the melts has it been exposed to the air so the rust is quite new.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 6:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William M wrote:
Greg Ballantyne wrote:
I read this article earlier today, but there were no pictures included. Do the pictures make anyone else wonder about authenticity? It strikes me that the rust/corrosion looks fairly new, and the grip length appears quite long.


I think that it was quite nicely preserved in the permafrost for a long time and only recently with the melts has it been exposed to the air so the rust is quite new.


Well, strictly speaking it was in loose scree, jumbled rock on the surface. It was never in the actual permafrost, the permanently frozen soil below.

I was a little alarmed by that orange rust, too! But they say they've found even older iron artifacts up there in the same condition, so I'll take their word for it. At least it's not an obvious Deepeeka sword dipped in acid.

Wouldn't mind tripping over something like that in *my* back yard!

Matthew
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Paul Mullins





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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
[Wouldn't mind tripping over something like that in *my* back yard!

Matthew


We could call it the Kensington/Amt Viking sword. Wink

Proving that Vikings sailed up the Potomac River!
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm glad that someone else made mention that this could be a possible hoax. I didn't want to be the first to say it, but that blade looks very 'crisp' to have been in permafrost for centuries. But, look at Utzi, the 'Ice-Man'---He made it through the ages in bare flesh. I guess a Viking-age sword could do the same. This particular sword----I wouldn't be afraid to polish it up, re-grip it, and build a nice scabbard for it. That may sound like blasphemy to some, or a good idea to others----either way, it's a nice sword. It just looks sooo much like a Deepeeka to me. WTF?! .......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Peter Lyon
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Permafrost is permanently frozen ground. I don't think this sword was ever in the ground. This is rescue archaeology due to the retreating ice fields, so this sword was probably lost by somebody traversing the ice somehow and not recovered; the sword would be covered by later snowfalls and protected in the ice until recently, when the retreating ice field left the sword on top of the field of broken rock.

What I am interested in, when the sword gets a clean and scan, will there be inlaid letters on the blade?

Still hammering away
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Lyon wrote:
Permafrost is permanently frozen ground. I don't think this sword was ever in the ground. This is rescue archaeology due to the retreating ice fields, so this sword was probably lost by somebody traversing the ice somehow and not recovered; the sword would be covered by later snowfalls and protected in the ice until recently, when the retreating ice field left the sword on top of the field of broken rock.

What I am interested in, when the sword gets a clean and scan, will there be inlaid letters on the blade?


If it's pattern welded, probably not.
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nothing wrong with wishful thinking. Happy It wouldn't surprise me a bit to see 'INDIA' stamped into the blade. Sorry to be such a pessimist, but this looks just too good to be true. If it IS REAL....I'll gladly eat my own words. I hope it's genuine....I really do....but, I'm not going to sit here holding my breath. I've seen some reeeeeally good fakes in my fifty years. Wink .....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Lyon wrote:
Permafrost is permanently frozen ground. I don't think this sword was ever in the ground. This is rescue archaeology due to the retreating ice fields, so this sword was probably lost by somebody traversing the ice somehow and not recovered; the sword would be covered by later snowfalls and protected in the ice until recently, when the retreating ice field left the sword on top of the field of broken rock.


Score 'one' for Global warming.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Wed 13 Sep, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
I'm glad that someone else made mention that this could be a possible hoax. I didn't want to be the first to say it, but that blade looks very 'crisp' to have been in permafrost for centuries. But, look at Utzi, the 'Ice-Man'---He made it through the ages in bare flesh. I guess a Viking-age sword could do the same. This particular sword----I wouldn't be afraid to polish it up, re-grip it, and build a nice scabbard for it. That may sound like blasphemy to some, or a good idea to others----either way, it's a nice sword. It just looks sooo much like a Deepeeka to me. WTF?! .......McM


Right there with you Mark. My first impression was "Hoax." I am still doubtful but will wait and see if anything else come from it. I didn't want to be the first to mention it either!

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Greg Ballantyne




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PostPosted: Thu 14 Sep, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm also thinking about the picture with the hand holding the hilt....unless that's an awfully narrow hand, that exposed tang is at least 5" long....
Like others I'm not crying hoax, but I am certainly skeptical. Just found lying on the ground.....needs measurements checked to see if that reveals a typology misfit - not a guarantee, but certainly an indication.
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Jussi Ekholm




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep, 2017 1:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just want to point out that the sword was found from Southern part of Norway, not from Finland. It was found from Oppland province: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppland

We don't have any places in Finland that reach 1640 meters.

Jussi Ekholm
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep, 2017 4:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greg Ballantyne wrote:
I'm also thinking about the picture with the hand holding the hilt....unless that's an awfully narrow hand, that exposed tang is at least 5" long....
Like others I'm not crying hoax, but I am certainly skeptical. Just found lying on the ground.....needs measurements checked to see if that reveals a typology misfit - not a guarantee, but certainly an indication.


Look at the picture with the metric ruler - looks like grip is about 4" (10cm). A bit long but not unusual.
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Type M swords often had a bit longer grips. Also an argument for theory that M hilts aren't meant to stay on the sword for long.
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Greg Ballantyne




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote:
Greg Ballantyne wrote:
I'm also thinking about the picture with the hand holding the hilt....unless that's an awfully narrow hand, that exposed tang is at least 5" long....
Like others I'm not crying hoax, but I am certainly skeptical. Just found lying on the ground.....needs measurements checked to see if that reveals a typology misfit - not a guarantee, but certainly an indication.


Look at the picture with the metric ruler - looks like grip is about 4" (10cm). A bit long but not unusual.


A 4" grip isn't all that long.... perhaps the very short guard also makes the grip appear longer.....odd proportions, blade length seems a little long as well.... maybe the overall hilt proportions give it the odd look. I'm a little skeptical in any case.
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